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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Paul was on last years team as well.

There's no argument, I'm just saying (opinion) that Paul has done more to elevate the play of his teammates than KB, though that is like choosing between a Ferrari and a Lamborghini.

Will he win the trophy? no. As previously implied, the MVP is a cumulative lifetime acheivement award, like the Oscar. I heard this on Dan Patrick the other night, out of all Al Pacino's great roles, what did he finally win the statue for? Scent of a Woman.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:28 pm 
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The biggest difference between the Hornets 06/07 and 07/08 is that Peja has been healthy all year. He gives them an outside option for CP3 to kick out to when he needs help. Peja is giving them about 16 ppg compared to only playing 16 games all year.


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 Post subject: Re: Race to the MVP
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:15 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
So with about 30% of the NBA season remaining, the MVP race is as close as its ever been the past few years. Legit arguments can be made for several different guys. In order, this is how I would rank them right now, with a little under 2 months left to play

1. ) Chris Paul - Well there's not much else to say if you've followed mine and Nas's exchange in the Chandler vs Wallace thread. I think he's the best PG in the game, he's developed an outside shot thats much better than most thought, tremendous in the halfcourt, locks down on defense, consistently gets open looks for everyone on his team, competitive as hell, has shown the ability to get it done in the closing seconds of a game. The only player in the league this year to get 40+ points and 20+ assists in seperate games. Only flaw I've really noticed is he seems to struggle against Deron Williams.

2.) Kobe Bryant - This is basically 1A to CP's #1. He might be playing the best ball of his career, which is really saying alot. IMO, he's the best player in the world, I'd have him slightly above Lebron at this point(See Nas, Im not always all about the young guys). Seems to have reconciled very nicely with Phil and Bynum, gets along well with other young guys like Farmar and Turiaf. Seems to be the true leader of that team, instead of just the best player.

3.) Lebron James - The commitment to playing All World defense this year is the biggest story from Lebron this season. He has always been able to do whatever he wants on the court, the one knock on him always being that he tends to take games off and thats a bad sign for a really young player. He seems to try hard almost every single night now a la Kobe. Supposedly he is 100% in favor of the trade, and right now he is the best player in the Eastern Conference, and that could be enough to topple the C's or Detroit in a 7 game series, shades of game 5 last season.

4.) Steve Nash - Not much new to add here if you have followed the NBA the past few seasons. A terrific offensive guard who doubles as one of the most competitve players in the league. Makes all of his teammates better, has the ability to score 30 any given night or dish out 20 assists, and probably even both in the same game. The one knock I always have on him is his defense, I just dont think its good enough to keep him in the race, considering the three above him are about as good as it gets.

5.) Tim Duncan - I need to mention here that Manu is playing some unbelievable ball the past few weeks, and Duncan's stats are lower than usual. He still has the Spurs right in the mix in the West and his leadership abilities have improved greatly since 2003. He's more vocal with teammates and the refs(ask Joey Crawford). He struggled the first couple months but since January 1st he has led this team on both ends of the floor and has them in a good position to win his 5th title, which would leave him one shy of MJ.

Honorable mentions

Baron Davis - having a career year, the unquestioned leader of Golden State, a team noone wants to see in the first round this year

Dwight Howard - The sky is the limit for this kid. I would not be surprised to see him average 25-15 over the next several seasons.

Brandon Roy - The center of what has been a feel good season for the Blazers, although they have been fading too much lately for him to be up higher

Chris Bosh - Hes been great since the beginning of the new year, an excellent overall shooter, one of the most efficient players in the game. Could use a bit of work on his acting abilities though.

No love for Garnett?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:30 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
As far as the Lakers having the best team 1-12, that's debatable too.


Of course it's debatable, just out of curiousity, if you were a GM, who's roster would you rather have?

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 Post subject: Re: Race to the MVP
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:33 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
So with about 30% of the NBA season remaining, the MVP race is as close as its ever been the past few years. Legit arguments can be made for several different guys. In order, this is how I would rank them right now, with a little under 2 months left to play

1. ) Chris Paul - Well there's not much else to say if you've followed mine and Nas's exchange in the Chandler vs Wallace thread. I think he's the best PG in the game, he's developed an outside shot thats much better than most thought, tremendous in the halfcourt, locks down on defense, consistently gets open looks for everyone on his team, competitive as hell, has shown the ability to get it done in the closing seconds of a game. The only player in the league this year to get 40+ points and 20+ assists in seperate games. Only flaw I've really noticed is he seems to struggle against Deron Williams.

2.) Kobe Bryant - This is basically 1A to CP's #1. He might be playing the best ball of his career, which is really saying alot. IMO, he's the best player in the world, I'd have him slightly above Lebron at this point(See Nas, Im not always all about the young guys). Seems to have reconciled very nicely with Phil and Bynum, gets along well with other young guys like Farmar and Turiaf. Seems to be the true leader of that team, instead of just the best player.

3.) Lebron James - The commitment to playing All World defense this year is the biggest story from Lebron this season. He has always been able to do whatever he wants on the court, the one knock on him always being that he tends to take games off and thats a bad sign for a really young player. He seems to try hard almost every single night now a la Kobe. Supposedly he is 100% in favor of the trade, and right now he is the best player in the Eastern Conference, and that could be enough to topple the C's or Detroit in a 7 game series, shades of game 5 last season.

4.) Steve Nash - Not much new to add here if you have followed the NBA the past few seasons. A terrific offensive guard who doubles as one of the most competitve players in the league. Makes all of his teammates better, has the ability to score 30 any given night or dish out 20 assists, and probably even both in the same game. The one knock I always have on him is his defense, I just dont think its good enough to keep him in the race, considering the three above him are about as good as it gets.

5.) Tim Duncan - I need to mention here that Manu is playing some unbelievable ball the past few weeks, and Duncan's stats are lower than usual. He still has the Spurs right in the mix in the West and his leadership abilities have improved greatly since 2003. He's more vocal with teammates and the refs(ask Joey Crawford). He struggled the first couple months but since January 1st he has led this team on both ends of the floor and has them in a good position to win his 5th title, which would leave him one shy of MJ.

Honorable mentions

Baron Davis - having a career year, the unquestioned leader of Golden State, a team noone wants to see in the first round this year

Dwight Howard - The sky is the limit for this kid. I would not be surprised to see him average 25-15 over the next several seasons.

Brandon Roy - The center of what has been a feel good season for the Blazers, although they have been fading too much lately for him to be up higher

Chris Bosh - Hes been great since the beginning of the new year, an excellent overall shooter, one of the most efficient players in the game. Could use a bit of work on his acting abilities though.

No love for Garnett?


An obvious oversight. At the time I took into account how well Boston played without KG(something like 10-2 without him) and his career low stats. I should have realized however, that his importance had nothing to do with points and rebounds. It was more of a change of atmosphere and energy he brought to the team. The symbol of the Celtic's resurrection.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:38 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
Bagels wrote:
As far as the Lakers having the best team 1-12, that's debatable too.


Of course it's debatable, just out of curiousity, if you were a GM, who's roster would you rather have?


Are we talking about Lakers vs. Hornets?

I'd have to say the Hornets....In the long term, Kobe has a lot of hard miles on his body from the playoffs whereas Paul is relatively fresh and doesn't totally play a reckless style like Wade where you figure he won't last too long. West has had broken ankles but again, he's relatively young too as is Chandler. And I'd say Peja is really the only bad contract the Hornets have, and it's not like with Paul feeding him for wide open 3's that he's useless or anything- just overpaid. The Lakers are more of a veteran team built for winning now. Bynum is really the only young star they have (I know, Vucachick and Farmar but I'm not buying that) and he's coming off serious surgery.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:46 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
Apologist wrote:
Bagels wrote:
As far as the Lakers having the best team 1-12, that's debatable too.


Of course it's debatable, just out of curiousity, if you were a GM, who's roster would you rather have?


Are we talking about Lakers vs. Hornets?

I'd have to say the Hornets....In the long term, Kobe has a lot of hard miles on his body from the playoffs whereas Paul is relatively fresh and doesn't totally play a reckless style like Wade where you figure he won't last too long. West has had broken ankles but again, he's relatively young too as is Chandler. And I'd say Peja is really the only bad contract the Hornets have, and it's not like with Paul feeding him for wide open 3's that he's useless or anything- just overpaid. The Lakers are more of a veteran team built for winning now. Bynum is really the only young star they have (I know, Vucachick and Farmar but I'm not buying that) and he's coming off serious surgery.


If rather have the Hornets roster too, but its damn close. Itll be interesting to see how long Kobe has left, its really an unprecedented situation I think. Considering him and Pau arent 30 yet, Bynum is 20, and I think Farmar will be an above average starting PG in the league, I think its really close. All depends on how many years Kobe has left at an elite level.

As for overall NBA rosters, Portland is right up there too, maybe at the top of the list. I still wouldnt take them above the previously mentioned rosters only because Oden's health(and production I guess) is still an unknown going forward. Still, adding a lottery pick onto that already stacked young team is incredible.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:50 pm 
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The only question is, like you say, when is Kobe going to start breaking down. He's making a ridiculous amount of money, so he better be capable of carrying the team and playing at an elite level for several more years

I have a feeling though that his descent will be more gradual...he's a very good outside shooter and post-up player, so it's not like he totally depends on his speed like Iverson or something. Therefore I think when his physical skills begin to decline he'll still be able to score


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:52 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
The only question is, like you say, when is Kobe going to start breaking down. He's making a ridiculous amount of money, so he better be capable of carrying the team and playing at an elite level for several more years

I have a feeling though that his descent will be more gradual...he's a very good outside shooter and post-up player, so it's not like he totally depends on his speed like Iverson or something. Therefore I think when his physical skills begin to decline he'll still be able to score


I think we will see it first defensively. He's still a first team-caliber defensive player. Once that starts to go, I think we will see the writing on the wall. I see him being one of those Jerry Rice type guys though that will be forced to leave, not leave on his own terms. Just seems like basketball is who he is.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:47 pm 
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So has this weekends games sealed the Trophy for Kobe?

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Last edited by Apologist on Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:41 pm 
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I still think Chris Paul is the MVP but Im fine with Kobe getting it, and he definitely will.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:46 pm 
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Will somebody explain their interpretation if the balloting process? Is it only writers, are executives or league officials involved somehow, is it similar to the MLB or NFL?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:04 am 
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I know it's not how it's supposed to be given out, and I don't even like him as a person, but I'd like to see Kobe get it as a "lifetime achievement" award, and to make up for how he was robbed in 2006. I mean, 35ppg, that 81-point game, that streak of 4 consecutive 45-point games, averaged 43.4 ppg in January. And he finished fourth(!) in mvp voting that year.

Although I wouldn't be upset if Chris Paul won it either.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:44 pm 
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Bill Simmons paragraph about why Marbury is the Least Valuable Player in the league is hilarious, from his column today about the race to MVP

Quote:
450. Stephon MarburyEven before the season, Marbury looked like the favorite for my annual LVP ("Least Valuable Player") Award thanks to some peculiar TV interviews, a prominent role in the sexual harrassment suit against the Knicks and the inspiration for at least 50,000 fantasy team names that somehow involved the words "truck" and "party." Then the season started and he splintered the Knicks during a vicious argument with Isiah Thomas that included the reported threat, "He thinks he can [bleep] me, but I'll [bleep] him first." He was immortalized on YouTube with the superb "Night At The Starbury" parody. He played 24 games and participated in a whopping six victories (considering he makes $20 million, that's more than $3.3 million per victory), then took an extended leave of absence after his father's death and nobody cared if he came back. And finally, he opted for season-ending ankle surgery when he easily could have waited until the summer. We've had nuclear leaks that were remembered more positively than Marbury's 2007-08 season.

(You know it has been memorable when you're asking with a straight face, "Do you think he'll even be alive in two years?" Did I mention that he's on the books for $21 million next season and might be the single most untradeable professional athlete since Rae Carruth's final days on the Panthers' roster? Now that, my friends, is an LVP.)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:15 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I still think Chris Paul is the MVP but Im fine with Kobe getting it, and he definitely will.


It has to be Kobe. I think this past weekend sealed the deal for him. I think the torch of the best player in basketball will be passed to LeBron next year. I don't think Kobe's body will allow him to play at a consistent level on both ends of the court again.


If you wanna give him a lifetime achievement type MVP then thats fine, Kobe has been one of my favorite players and it would definitely be a shame if he didnt win an MVP in his career, but I still think Chris Paul was more valuable to his team. Like I said though, Im fine with Kobe and I can see why someone would think he should get it.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:37 pm 
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L.A. Times is reporting Kobe officially won the MVP award.

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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:09 pm 
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Nas wrote:
8)

Well, the guy deserved it definitely. Too bad they don't do co-MVPs.

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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 1:04 pm 
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co-MVPs is retarded. I would rather Kobe win it solely then him and Paul share it. I dont mind Kobe winning, just like I didnt mind Duncan beating Kidd for it in 2002, but obviously I do think Paul was more deserving. It was Kobe's "turn".

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