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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:10 am 
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America wrote:
You don't see how the accuracy gets better even though his accuracy keeps getting better.

He's probably coming off the most inaccurate performance of his short career so far, and it was against a bottom of the barrel defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:10 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
You don't see how the accuracy gets better even though his accuracy keeps getting better.

Does it?

It seems like he hits the easy throws, makes 1-2 real nice ones, and misses on overthrows on 3-4 times per game.

Yes, it has. Anyone who watched weeks 1-3 would tell you that his accuracy has subsequently gotten much better. Everyone misses some throws. I'm not saying everyone like all the mortal QB's either, even Brady or Rodgers miss a throw or two. Bears fans see Mitch miss one or two throws on a drive and they freak out like the sky is falling and everyone should be fired, but it happens all the time. The expectations here are unrealistic.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:10 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
You don't see how the accuracy gets better even though his accuracy keeps getting better.

He's probably coming off the most inaccurate performance of his short career so far, and it was against a bottom of the barrel defense.

lmao


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:13 am 
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America wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
You don't see how the accuracy gets better even though his accuracy keeps getting better.

Does it?

It seems like he hits the easy throws, makes 1-2 real nice ones, and misses on overthrows on 3-4 times per game.

Yes, it has. Anyone who watched weeks 1-3 would tell you that his accuracy has subsequently gotten much better. Everyone misses some throws. I'm not saying everyone like all the mortal QB's either, even Brady or Rodgers miss a throw or two. Bears fans see Mitch miss one or two throws on a drive and they freak out like the sky is falling and everyone should be fired, but it happens all the time. The expectations here are unrealistic.

He badly missed like 10-12 throws on Sunday. We aren't talking about one or two a game here. His inaccuracy and red zone decision making was a national storyline yesterday morning.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:17 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
He badly missed like 10-12 throws on Sunday. We aren't talking about one or two a game here. His inaccuracy and red zone decision making was a national storyline yesterday morning.

What throws are you counting here? The ones that bounced off receivers hands? The one where he launched a deep ball with a defender literally a foot away from his face?

The red zone is tough. Its tough on everyone except for literally Brady, and that's it.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:27 am 
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America wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He badly missed like 10-12 throws on Sunday. We aren't talking about one or two a game here. His inaccuracy and red zone decision making was a national storyline yesterday morning.

What throws are you counting here? The ones that bounced off receivers hands? The one where he launched a deep ball with a defender literally a foot away from his face?

The red zone is tough. Its tough on everyone except for literally Brady, and that's it.

I'm talking about ones where he had wide open WR's and sailed the ball 5 feet over their head or 5 feet in front of or behind them. I don't know what game you were watching, but he missed a lot of throws badly.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:32 am 
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America wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
You don't see how the accuracy gets better even though his accuracy keeps getting better.

Does it?

It seems like he hits the easy throws, makes 1-2 real nice ones, and misses on overthrows on 3-4 times per game.

Yes, it has. Anyone who watched weeks 1-3 would tell you that his accuracy has subsequently gotten much better. Everyone misses some throws. I'm not saying everyone like all the mortal QB's either, even Brady or Rodgers miss a throw or two. Bears fans see Mitch miss one or two throws on a drive and they freak out like the sky is falling and everyone should be fired, but it happens all the time. The expectations here are unrealistic.

Several overthrows of wide open receivers where if the ball was accurate it was a sure Touchdown


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:38 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He badly missed like 10-12 throws on Sunday. We aren't talking about one or two a game here. His inaccuracy and red zone decision making was a national storyline yesterday morning.

What throws are you counting here? The ones that bounced off receivers hands? The one where he launched a deep ball with a defender literally a foot away from his face?

The red zone is tough. Its tough on everyone except for literally Brady, and that's it.

I'm talking about ones where he had wide open WR's and sailed the ball 5 feet over their head or 5 feet in front of or behind them. I don't know what game you were watching, but he missed a lot of throws badly.

you're saying he missed 12 deep throws against the patriots.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:43 am 
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America wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
America wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
He badly missed like 10-12 throws on Sunday. We aren't talking about one or two a game here. His inaccuracy and red zone decision making was a national storyline yesterday morning.

What throws are you counting here? The ones that bounced off receivers hands? The one where he launched a deep ball with a defender literally a foot away from his face?

The red zone is tough. Its tough on everyone except for literally Brady, and that's it.

I'm talking about ones where he had wide open WR's and sailed the ball 5 feet over their head or 5 feet in front of or behind them. I don't know what game you were watching, but he missed a lot of throws badly.

you're saying he missed 12 deep throws against the patriots.

I'm saying he had about that many passes where the ball was uncatchable. A few were deep, most were at the second level. My 12 number is undoubtedly a lot closer to the truth than your 1 or 2 number.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:55 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
My only concern is, I dont see how the accuracy gets better. Maybe it will, but that is not something to chalk up to being young or a learning curve.

Experience is what helps with that. He makes a lot of perfect throws now so he can do it. He just needs more time.

The big problem would be if you only saw short throws.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:15 am 
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I didn't say it was 1 or 2. I said Brady and Rodgers even in their best games miss 1 or 2.

I know (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is not as good as the GOATS, you've seen my rankings.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:40 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
My only concern is, I dont see how the accuracy gets better. Maybe it will, but that is not something to chalk up to being young or a learning curve.

Experience is what helps with that. He makes a lot of perfect throws now so he can do it. He just needs more time.

The big problem would be if you only saw short throws.

It'd be nice to see him drop one in on a long Touchdown when Miller gets separation.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:43 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
My only concern is, I dont see how the accuracy gets better. Maybe it will, but that is not something to chalk up to being young or a learning curve.

Experience is what helps with that. He makes a lot of perfect throws now so he can do it. He just needs more time.

The big problem would be if you only saw short throws.

It'd be nice to see him drop one in on a long Touchdown when Miller gets separation.

Agreed. I'm not sold on him yet but he is clearly much improved.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Him and Miller need to find some chemistry.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:04 am 
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I've been involved in the NFL in some manner since 1981, and I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever seen a quarterback critiqued as much as the Bears' Mitchell (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is. In my view, too many are expecting perfection from (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky without realizing that's asking for the impossible.

The 24-year-old (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is less than halfway through his second professional season and is playing in a complex offensive system that takes time to master. He has done well in the Bears' 3-3 start, flashing his potential and showing progress. He has exceeded expectations in my mind, not fallen short of them.

One of the primary reasons that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is so heavily critiqued is because of the success that both Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes and Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson have had early in their careers. As we all know, the Bears selected (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky at No. 2 overall in 2017 over the other two, with Mahomes going No. 10 and Watson being chosen at No. 12.

We can debate all day whether the Bears should've selected one of the other quarterbacks. It would be a fair and solid argument, but the reality is that for the Bears, it only matters what (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky can accomplish now. 

And so far, he's played really well, posting a 97.1 quarterback rating, 65.9 completion percentage, 1,594 yards, 13 touchdowns and six interceptions in six games. Those number compare favorably to where some of the veteran, established quarterback were in their second (or third or fourth) year and also favorably to some of the younger quarterbacks just ahead of (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.

Let's take a look at how (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky stacks up.

Ben Roethlisberger

Roethlisberger had a standout rookie campaign of 2004, leading the Steelers to a 13-0 mark in the regular-season games he started and posting a 98.1 quarterback rating. In his second season, Roethlisberger completed 62.7 percent of his passes for 2,385 yards, 17 touchdowns and nine interceptions. He had a 98.6 quarterback rating and started 12 games, with the Steelers going 9-3. Roethlisberger then threw a league-high 23 interceptions in his third season, a reminder that growing pains can last for years.

Philip Rivers

Rivers became a starter in his third year after sitting and learning behind the great Drew Brees. With Rivers leading the way for the first time in 2006, the Chargers went 14-2. He threw for 3,388 yards, 22 touchdowns and nine interceptions, with a 92.0 quarterback rating and 61.7 completion percentage. 

Aaron Rodgers

Rodgers also sat behind a legendary quarterback, learning under Brett Favre. Rodgers didn't start until 2008, his fourth season. He put up big numbers, throwing for 4,038 yards, 28 touchdowns and 13 interceptions, with a 93.8 quarterback rating and 63.6 completion percentage.

Marcus Mariota

As a rookie in 2015, Mariota had a 91.5 quarterback rating in 12 games. In his second season, he threw for 2,426 yards, 26 touchdowns, nine interceptions and registered a 95.6 quarterback rating and 61.2 completion percentage.

Jameis Winston

The No. 1 pick in 2015, Winston has been criticized for character flaws. On the field, I'd rather have (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. In his second season, Winston threw for 4,090 yards, 28 touchdowns and 18 interceptions, with an 86.1 quarterback rating and 60.8 completion percentage. The Bucs went 6-10 then.

Andrew Luck

When Luck was drafted first overall in 2012, he was probably the most NFL-ready quarterback in years, having played in Stanford’s pro-style system. Still, he had some second-year ups and downs in 2013, posting an 87.0 quarterback rating while throwing for 3,822 yards, 23 touchdowns and nine interceptions with a 60.2 completion percentage.

As you can see, (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's numbers through six games stand up to those of many successful quarterbacks early in their playing careers. While numbers don't tell the whole story, they're part of the basis on which (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky should be judged. In my mind, far too many people have been too critical of his play.

Watson had an amazing rookie season in 2017 before suffering an ACL tear. Back to action now, he hasn't come close to returning to that top form yet. Mahomes has simply been special, and it wouldn't surprise me if he became an all-time great.

(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is on a course to become a successful, winning quarterback. He's not perfect, and we shouldn't expect him to be. He will have games like he did on Sept. 30, when he lit the Buccaneers up. He will also have games like he did Sunday, when he off-target far too often in a loss to the Patriots. 

It's all part of the learning process. Keep that in mind. In the end, I have a feeling the Bears and fans are going to be really happy with what (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky transforms into as a quarterback and leader.

Greg Gabriel is a former NFL talent evaluator who's an on-air contributor for 670 The Score. Follow him on Twitter @greggabe.​​​


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:15 am 
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Gabriel's sample of QBs is weird. Also using Big Ben/Rivers/Rodgers isn't a fair comparison. Those players started their careers in a period where rules weren't as tilted to offense as they are today. Their numbers would need to be adjusted. Mariota and Winston are fair enough comps.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:18 am 
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I HATE comparing statistics to begin with but I REALLY HATE saying "Aaron Rodgers threw 28 TD passes his first year as a full time starter and (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is on pace for 32 TD passes!!!".

Its not relevant. For one stats are no longer relevant except maybe for rushing. There's no precedence for this year, I cant even begin to compare what a QB just two seasons ago accomplished vs what is done on a weekly basis now. Someone could throw 100 TD passes today and I'd wonder how they would've fared as recently as 2011. So this statistical argument needs to get thrown out the fucking window.

What is true is that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is by far the most criticized QB I've seen, and not just for the Bears. He is reviled for absolutely no reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:20 am 
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Rex Grossman

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:21 am 
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America wrote:
I HATE comparing statistics to begin with but I REALLY HATE saying "Aaron Rodgers threw 28 TD passes his first year as a full time starter and (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is on pace for 32 TD passes!!!".

Its not relevant. For one stats are no longer relevant except maybe for rushing. There's no precedence for this year, I cant even begin to compare what a QB just two seasons ago accomplished vs what is done on a weekly basis now. Someone could throw 100 TD passes today and I'd wonder how they would've fared as recently as 2011. So this statistical argument needs to get thrown out the fucking window.

What is true is that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is by far the most criticized QB I've seen, and not just for the Bears. He is reviled for absolutely no reason.

Jay Cutler? Tony Romo?


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:24 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
I HATE comparing statistics to begin with but I REALLY HATE saying "Aaron Rodgers threw 28 TD passes his first year as a full time starter and (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is on pace for 32 TD passes!!!".

Its not relevant. For one stats are no longer relevant except maybe for rushing. There's no precedence for this year, I cant even begin to compare what a QB just two seasons ago accomplished vs what is done on a weekly basis now. Someone could throw 100 TD passes today and I'd wonder how they would've fared as recently as 2011. So this statistical argument needs to get thrown out the fucking window.

What is true is that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is by far the most criticized QB I've seen, and not just for the Bears. He is reviled for absolutely no reason.

Jay Cutler? Tony Romo?

Blake Bortles.

If you are a top pick and aren't playing like it, you are going to be criticized pretty heavily. This isn't unique to the Bears, and Nagy comes off very poorly every Monday when he whines about his QB being unfairly targeted for criticism.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:26 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Gabriel's sample of QBs is weird. Also using Big Ben/Rivers/Rodgers isn't a fair comparison. Those players started their careers in a period where rules weren't as tilted to offense as they are today. Their numbers would need to be adjusted. Mariota and Winston are fair enough comps.

Its a different era than Winston and Mariota even. I would go as far as to say its a different era than Watson's rookie year (aka last year).

The rules are part of it but its not just the rules. The Chiefs CB's hold on every play and its not always called (they are also terrible). Its that three deep zone has been totally solved and nobody has come up with something new that stops these offenses that teams are no running. The scheme's are woefully outdated and all the best, young football minds seem to gravitate towards the offensive side of the ball. Who are the most innovative defensive coordinators in football? Dean Pees (69 years old, nice), Vic Fangio (60 years old), Wade Phillips (72 years old), Don Martindale (55 years old) while Gus Bradley, Jim Schwartz and Greg Manusky are all 52 years old. Everyone else (except Buffalo) is running that outdated Seattle/Cincy scheme and getting roasted. Hell, even those old dogs are getting roasted, but they are the only ones even trying to solve it.

Nobody wants to coach defense anymore. Just poor Sean McDermott and his roster of absolute nobodies.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:28 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
I HATE comparing statistics to begin with but I REALLY HATE saying "Aaron Rodgers threw 28 TD passes his first year as a full time starter and (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is on pace for 32 TD passes!!!".

Its not relevant. For one stats are no longer relevant except maybe for rushing. There's no precedence for this year, I cant even begin to compare what a QB just two seasons ago accomplished vs what is done on a weekly basis now. Someone could throw 100 TD passes today and I'd wonder how they would've fared as recently as 2011. So this statistical argument needs to get thrown out the fucking window.

What is true is that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is by far the most criticized QB I've seen, and not just for the Bears. He is reviled for absolutely no reason.

Jay Cutler? Tony Romo?

Not even close. Until the very twilight it was considered the absolute height of meatball-ism to hate Jay Cutler.

Romo dealt with some shit but nothing like this. There is a hurricane constantly around (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky in the local media and fanbase. Romo didn't get hate until the playoffs failures starting rolling in.


Last edited by America on Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:28 am 
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Nas wrote:
Rex Grossman

No way.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:29 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
I HATE comparing statistics to begin with but I REALLY HATE saying "Aaron Rodgers threw 28 TD passes his first year as a full time starter and (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is on pace for 32 TD passes!!!".

Its not relevant. For one stats are no longer relevant except maybe for rushing. There's no precedence for this year, I cant even begin to compare what a QB just two seasons ago accomplished vs what is done on a weekly basis now. Someone could throw 100 TD passes today and I'd wonder how they would've fared as recently as 2011. So this statistical argument needs to get thrown out the fucking window.

What is true is that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is by far the most criticized QB I've seen, and not just for the Bears. He is reviled for absolutely no reason.

Jay Cutler? Tony Romo?

Blake Bortles.

If you are a top pick and aren't playing like it, you are going to be criticized pretty heavily. This isn't unique to the Bears, and Nagy comes off very poorly every Monday when he whines about his QB being unfairly targeted for criticism.

loljacksonville


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:30 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
I HATE comparing statistics to begin with but I REALLY HATE saying "Aaron Rodgers threw 28 TD passes his first year as a full time starter and (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is on pace for 32 TD passes!!!".

Its not relevant. For one stats are no longer relevant except maybe for rushing. There's no precedence for this year, I cant even begin to compare what a QB just two seasons ago accomplished vs what is done on a weekly basis now. Someone could throw 100 TD passes today and I'd wonder how they would've fared as recently as 2011. So this statistical argument needs to get thrown out the fucking window.

What is true is that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is by far the most criticized QB I've seen, and not just for the Bears. He is reviled for absolutely no reason.

Jay Cutler? Tony Romo?

Blake Bortles.

If you are a top pick and aren't playing like it, you are going to be criticized pretty heavily. This isn't unique to the Bears, and Nagy comes off very poorly every Monday when he whines about his QB being unfairly targeted for criticism.


Most of us loved the Wiston pick. We thought he would be like Ben Roethlisberger on the field too and he really hasn't been. Right now (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky looks like a better quarterback. Mahomes looks like great but it's kinda hard to judge because he has top 3 to 5 players at RB/TE/WR. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky doesn't have a top 15 player at any of those positions. I think things will clear up in another year.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:31 am 
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Watson was the best QB of this class but his body just cant take an NFL pounding. He's already a shell of what he was at Clemson.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:33 am 
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Watson was horribly inaccurate at Clemson and threw a ton of interceptions. Otherwise he would have been the hands down #1 pick, even graded higher than Luck. Shit he took town Alabama! He will still be good, but FavreFan anointing him last year was exhausting, to everyone I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:41 am 
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When's the last QB prospect that had more "it factor" than Watson? I cant even think of one. Best combination of leadership/intelligence/presence coming out of NCAA in forever, and his arm was definitely NFL quality. But he's just dying out there. The Texans really fucked up not going all out to build him an OL these last two off-seasons because of all the QB's in the NFL (other than Brady) who need protection he was the one needed it most with his body. And the Texans have gone out and put together arguably the worst OL in the NFL currenty and by far the worst to start the season.

I dont think there's a guarantee his body holds up even with a good OL, which is why he fell to 1.12, but they never even gave him a chance. Dude is a warrior though.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:46 am 
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America wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
I HATE comparing statistics to begin with but I REALLY HATE saying "Aaron Rodgers threw 28 TD passes his first year as a full time starter and (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is on pace for 32 TD passes!!!".

Its not relevant. For one stats are no longer relevant except maybe for rushing. There's no precedence for this year, I cant even begin to compare what a QB just two seasons ago accomplished vs what is done on a weekly basis now. Someone could throw 100 TD passes today and I'd wonder how they would've fared as recently as 2011. So this statistical argument needs to get thrown out the fucking window.

What is true is that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is by far the most criticized QB I've seen, and not just for the Bears. He is reviled for absolutely no reason.

Jay Cutler? Tony Romo?

Blake Bortles.

If you are a top pick and aren't playing like it, you are going to be criticized pretty heavily. This isn't unique to the Bears, and Nagy comes off very poorly every Monday when he whines about his QB being unfairly targeted for criticism.

loljacksonville

It's not just me trolling. That is Mitch's comp so far. MANY are using it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitch has potential
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:47 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Watson was horribly inaccurate at Clemson and threw a ton of interceptions. Otherwise he would have been the hands down #1 pick, even graded higher than Luck. Shit he took town Alabama! He will still be good, but FavreFan anointing him last year was exhausting, to everyone I think.

Good call Bob! Watson was putting up unprecedented numbers in his first 6 NFL games but I was definitely the only one who thought he was good because of it!

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