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 Post subject: Red Flags about Beasley
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:08 pm 
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After you read this, the Bulls might want to think twice about drafting Michael Beasley with the #1 pick in next month's NBA Draft considering all the chaos surrounding this Bulls' team. While the article appears dated, there's a Washington Post story that seems to raise red flags surrounding Beasley's lack of discipline and spitting literally in the face of authority. The story raises serious character issues about Beasley signing his initials on the car of a school principal, including stops at five different high schools and disciplinary issues that the Bulls do NOT need. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we have guys currently on this sorry roster with character issues such as Tyrus Thomas, Chris Duhon & now Joakim Noah in the wake of his weekend arrest for possession of marijuana & an alleged open alcohol container?


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:56 pm 
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SHARK1104 wrote:
After you read this, the Bulls might want to think twice about drafting Michael Beasley with the #1 pick in next month's NBA Draft considering all the chaos surrounding this Bulls' team. While the article appears dated, there's a Washington Post story that seems to raise red flags surrounding Beasley's lack of discipline and spitting literally in the face of authority. The story raises serious character issues about Beasley signing his initials on the car of a school principal, including stops at five different high schools and disciplinary issues that the Bulls do NOT need. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we have guys currently on this sorry roster with character issues such as Tyrus Thomas, Chris Duhon & now Joakim Noah in the wake of his weekend arrest for possession of marijuana & an alleged open alcohol container?


Character issues are at the bottom of the list of Bulls problems.
Talent issues are at the top.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:46 pm 
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Mustang Rob wrote:
Talent issues are at the top.

Finally, the new philosophy I've been waiting for. When will they start?

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:51 pm 
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Good. I want more bad shit to come out about Beasley. So maybe, if Pax had any thoughts of taking him, he'll change his mind and take Rose.

I don't even know if this means Beasly will be an ass hole. Just put some more doubt in Paxon's mind. Maybe that will swing him to Rose.

Rose will be the better player. I don't care how Pax comes to take him. Take him for the wrong reasons. I don't care. Just take him.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:54 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Mustang Rob wrote:
Talent issues are at the top.

Finally, the new philosophy I've been waiting for. When will they start?

We're all hoping it starts in June with the headline:
"Bulls come out of the draft smelling Roses"

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:10 pm 
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Can he be judged for being 6'8"? I see him getting lost in the shuffle of 6'8"->7' forwards and centers in the NBA.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:25 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Sam in Hoffman wrote:
Can he be judged for being 6'8"? I see him getting lost in the shuffle of 6'8"->7' forwards and centers in the NBA.


Not if he is 6'10" when he is drafted.


What if we find out he's really white? Can we hold that against him?


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:39 pm 
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So what is his real height? He sure isn't 6'10". Looks more like 6'7"-6'8" to me.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:43 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
So what is his real height? He sure isn't 6'10". Looks more like 6'7"-6'8" to me.


I hate how this is even an issue, and it repeatedly is. How hard is it for professional sports leagues to get a concensus height on someone? I always hear "Well he is X tall, but Y inches taller/smaller than that." To me, its absurd that we even have to debate a tangible, measurable attribute when it comes to athletes.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:50 pm 
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Sometimes I think height is overrated. Especially for forwards. Look at guys like Barkley and Rodman.

Barkley got rebounds. Rodmand could defend and get rebounds.

Granted Barkley couldn't defend. That had more to do with the fact that he didn't want to.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Nas wrote:
A lot of you guys like to listen to the "experts"


I dont.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:22 pm 
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Nas wrote:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Michael-Beasley-605/

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profile ... asley.html


Quote:
he is somewhat undersized for the PF spot at the next level


They have closer to being a SF then a C.

Quote:
His game is based on sheer athleticism and strength, but his actual basketball skills can use some refinement

Quote:
Averaged a measly 1.2 assists per game, which may not only be a testament to his scoring mentality, but also to his marginal vision … His decision making is also suspect at times, he gets into trouble by trying to do too much, then attempts to throw difficult passes … Defensively, he has come a long way from simply wondering around the court, but that doesn’t mean that he is by any means a stopper just yet.

Quote:
Weaknesses:

• Size for PF position
• Team play
• Shot-selection
• Defense
• Focus
• Off-court red flags?
• Attitude?
• Winning mentality?


Obviously he will improve in these areas like anybody, and they do say he has the potential to be an incredible defender, but this is why I would go with Rose over Beasley. They seem to portray him as an offensive player and scorer that may or may not develop into a good passer and defender. The NBA comparison of Carmelo is troubling to say the least. All of this sounds alot like what I thought with limited knowledge the night of the lottery.


This is just going on the links you have posted.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:14 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Even watching the highlights you know that is a dumb comparison. That's not saying Carmelo isn't a good player either. Beasley can rebound and that right there kills the comparison. As I pointed out a while back there isn't a great big man that came into the league as a good passer. Most are turnover prone and stay that way. FF you cherry picked what you wanted. You are the same guy that said he doesn't listen to "experts".


Well shit Nas I dont what to tell you, you threw the links out there and I was pointing out that they had the same concerns I had. And Beasley was only a slightly better rebounder in college than Melo was in college, although yes I would hope he's a better rebounder in the NBA. And I never said I didnt listen to the experts, I said I dont like to and I dislike when people like to regurgitate experts opinions as if they are fact. Thats why this entire time I have been cautious to point out that Im not the best one on here to talk about Beasley, although I dont really remember you posting a whole lot about KSU hoops during the season.

Im still not convinced this guy wont be a better Zach Randolph. Laugh at that if you will, but thats what I get from the highlights and the scouting report backs that up, but adds that he has "potential" to be a great defender and passer, but he is definitely not very good at either coming into the league.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:20 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Even watching the highlights you know that is a dumb comparison. That's not saying Carmelo isn't a good player either. Beasley can rebound and that right there kills the comparison. As I pointed out a while back there isn't a great big man that came into the league as a good passer. Most are turnover prone and stay that way. FF you cherry picked what you wanted. You are the same guy that said he doesn't listen to "experts".


Well shit Nas I dont what to tell you, you threw the links out there and I was pointing out that they had the same concerns I had. And Beasley was only a slightly better rebounder in college than Melo was in college, although yes I would hope he's a better rebounder in the NBA. And I never said I didnt listen to the experts, I said I dont like to and I dislike when people like to regurgitate experts opinions as if they are fact. Thats why this entire time I have been cautious to point out that Im not the best one on here to talk about Beasley, although I dont really remember you posting a whole lot about KSU hoops during the season.

Im still not convinced this guy wont be a better Zach Randolph. Laugh at that if you will, but thats what I get from the highlights and the scouting report backs that up, but adds that he has "potential" to be a great defender and passer, but he is definitely not very good at either coming into the league.


How many big men are great defenders and passers coming into the league? KG or Duncan wasn't.


KG wasnt, Duncan was, although if you wanted to say that had alot to do with being a four year college player I wouldnt disagree.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:24 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Here are your ESPN friends that you like to quote:

Positives: Great athlete with long arms. Deep, deep range on his jump shot. Excellent hands. Amazing rebounder. Will score on you inside and out. Uses power in the post combined with excellent leaping ability. Has an excellent jump shot with NBA 3-point range. Has the versatility to play both the 3 and the 4 on virtually every team in the league.

Negatives: Character issues are the biggest question marks. Has been accused of being immature. Had some off the court issues as a high school player. As far as basketball goes, there's very little to complain about. He does need to work on his handle. Everything else looks great.

Summary: On talent, he's the best player in college basketball and a virtual lock for either the No. 1 or No. 2 pick in the draft. The only thing that raises question marks are character questions. He's been on his best behavior at Kansas State ... will he continue to behave once he has a big, fat guaranteed contract?


Draft Express:

Beasley’s NCAA tournament experience probably didn’t start or end quite the way he expected it to. He picked up two quick fouls in the first four minutes of his first game against Southern Cal, and only ended up scoring five points in the first half of that game. He recovered to pump in 18 after intermission, though, showing his incredible scoring instincts by creating his own shot from the perimeter and finishing with either hand in a variety of ways, his awesome first step and shooting range, as well as his phenomenal hands and touch around the rim. He didn’t go down in the paint as much as we’re normally accustomed to seeing him, preferring to face the basket and quickly take players off the dribble instead, likely to avoid the problems his guards usually have with making quality post-entry passes, as well as the barrage of double-teams he usually sees down low...he still looks like the sure-fire #1 pick barring any major surprises

Strengths:

• Ambidextrous
• Quickness
• Strength
• Body control
• Fluidity/Agility
• Hands
• Unbelievable scoring instincts
• Ability to face the basket
• First step
• Ball-handling skills
• Ability to create shot
• Finishing with either hand
• Pull-up jumper
• Back to the basket skills
• Rebounding
• Mismatch ability
• Go-to guy
• Incredible productivity
• 3-point range
• Upside

NBADRAFT.net:

Strengths: A fabulous athlete with an NBA ready body... Completed one of the most dominant seasons in college basketball history, as a freshman … His length, quickness, jumping ability and strength combine to make him one of the most difficult match ups … He has range from anywhere on the floor all the way out to NBA three, but is especially effective with his soft touch around the rim, where he uses both hands to finish with a variety of moves … His left handed jump shot is a thing of beauty, with a smooth release, he has good arc and is very balanced getting his legs under him to get great elevation … Most dangerous out of the mid-post where he can square his man up, and attack with a variety of moves; including strong takes to the hoop, a nice midrange pull-up, or simply shooting over the top of helpless defenders … From the triple threat his jabs and shot fakes are extremely efficient because he not only has a quick first step, but also a very long one that allows him to get by people at will … When the defender tries to beat him to the spot, he has a terrific spin move that is virtually unstoppable … His post game has progressed nicely, and he has shown a nice touch on a variety of hook-shots and fadeaways ... He fights hard to get good position on the block, and even harder when crashing the O glass, as seen by the 4 offensive rebounds that he averaged per gameHis ability to play the passing lanes and come over weakside to block shots, further adds to his ability to fill the stat sheet A strong personality with great confidence who never gets down on himself. There are few doubts about him becoming a bigtime impact talent at the next level


I find it funny that you posted the links, I can only assume you were saying I or everyone should read them, then when I report back what they say you say "Heres the experts you listen to and love to quote" I dont like quoting experts, but they directly were refuting some of the things you were saying.

As for this post, I read all of that already because I read the links you posted. Nobody disagrees with his strengths, we disagree on his weaknesses and how we project him to be in the NBA.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:30 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Duncan was a better defender but if you take a look at their numbers Duncan turned the ball over more than Beasley did. Duncan still turns the ball over a lot even though his passing has improved. I don't think Beasley is that far away from Duncan when it comes to defense but not having a David Robinson to school him in his first season it is unlikely he will catch up anytime soon.


I really think you are underestimating Duncan or overestimating Beasley. I think Duncan is probably the best post defender of his era. I dont think Beasley will be. I think Beasley has a long way to go.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:00 pm 
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1.) Tim Duncan is a much better defender than Wallace over his career. Wallace had about five-six seasons as probably the best help defender I can remember seeing and he was a very good but not dominant on the ball defender. Body of work has to go to Duncan when you comebine all the elements of defense + longevity of doing it. Rodman and Duncan didnt play at the same time. Im saying of all the people who have been in the league same time as Duncan I havent seen a better post defender. I still think Duncan is a better defender than Rodman was though, although you can make a good case for both.

2.) How many KSU games have you actually seen? Maybe the Kansas-KSU game? Only a couple were televised here, you saw all 2 or 3 of them?

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:31 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
1.) Tim Duncan is a much better defender than Wallace over his career. Wallace had about five-six seasons as probably the best help defender I can remember seeing and he was a very good but not dominant on the ball defender. Body of work has to go to Duncan when you comebine all the elements of defense + longevity of doing it. Rodman and Duncan didnt play at the same time. Im saying of all the people who have been in the league same time as Duncan I havent seen a better post defender. I still think Duncan is a better defender than Rodman was though, although you can make a good case for both.

2.) How many KSU games have you actually seen? Maybe the Kansas-KSU game? Only a couple were televised here, you saw all 2 or 3 of them?


No I didn't watch every KSU game. I did see more than 2 of them. A close friend of mine had a cousin that played for Missouri (Stephon Hannah) so I kept up with their conference. Rose was a Chicago guy and attended the same high school I did so I followed their games too. Aren't you the same guy that says someone can't comment of a player or a game unless they saw it? Now you tell me what a guy won't do that you never saw play. Even if you only looked at his stats you couldn't say the same thing. In his freshman season he has one of the best seasons in the history of college basketball and you say he probably isn't better than Zach Randolph. I respect your basketball opinion but sometimes you make me wonder what you are watching.


C'mon Nas you are taking much liberty with my words there. First I have always said he is a much better Zach Randolph. I think Beasley will be a terrific player. If I thought he probably wasnt better than Zach Randolph then I would clearly have a shocking, outrageous opinion that would be justifiably laughed at. Their skill sets are similar though, with Beasley being a bit stronger and having more of an outside shot.

Second, you cant blame me for being skeptical when it comes to the KSU question. That is a small time program that gets little air time here. I believe you, but I think alot of people around here love to pretend like they are experts on Beasley and Rose and at least Im honest with what I know and dont know.

Third, I never said you cant comment on a player if you havent seen him play, I said if you dont watch the games you cant pretend to know as much as those that do by regurgitating stats. If you notice, I have never mentioned stats one single time in analyzing the games of Beasley and Rose. I have simply watched as much tape as I can on both and have read a ton of analysis by multiple sources.

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