Hypothetical Jay Cutler was the greatest hypothetical player of all time.

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Yeah, the Wirtzes and a bunch of other shareholders still owned the Bulls in '84.

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Again you are merely standings chasing and providing presumptions "League suddenly became less competitive" without having anything to support it.

Since you are the one making the "suddenly became less competitive" argument explain how the NBA of the 90s was as "competitive" or "more competitive" than that of the 80's?

Let's see where you are at Brick.

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How has Jerry done with the Bulls in the post Jordan era?

What are you talking about? I have been comparing actual playoff series between actual teams. I did also mention the records of the teams. Is that not evidence of how good or bad a team is? It's not a presumption. Your case is literally that every champion from the 80s would easily beat the Bulls.

I have no reason to believe that basketball suddenly changed over the offseason that the Bulls happened to become the NBA's best team. There were still a lot of great players and great teams. The gap between the Bulls and everyone else was larger than it has been since the Celtics of the black and white tv days but I see no reason why it wouldn't be similarly as good.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You still haven't provided a reason why you feel it was as competitive. Saying they still had "great players" is ambiguous. Still nothing specific.

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Well apparently they couldn't have easily won 4 titles because they didn't.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yes they could.

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First let me point out that it is your opinion that EVERY team that won a title in the 80s is better than the dominant team from the 90s, so it is a little unfair that I now have to defend the other side when you have provided virtually nothing to justify such an opinion.

With that said, I will provide multiple reasons. The most simple is that people didn't suddenly forget how to play basketball in the 1990 offseason. Yes, some players were starting to decline but even then you had multiple up and coming teams, including a Trailblazers team that spanned the magical 1990 offseason where the play of the NBA dropped very quickly. This is also around the time the Dream Team was assembled which is considered the greatest collection of basketball talent that has ever been assembled and outside of a few older guys it was filled with people who would help define basketball of the 1990s. You had the infusion of international talent starting to really take off too which did increase the talent pool. It's also just common sense. There is no action that took place that would cause such a sudden decline in ability. The great players of the 80s did start to disappear but the same thing happens with every generation. We also know what Jordan as a player was when playing against most of the teams you referenced. This isn't like comparing him to Lebron or Kobe. Jordan played against the Celtics, Lakers, and Pistons early in his career. We know he was able to compete with them on a personal level, and yet something happened in the offseason of 1990 that pretty much knocked out all of the talent in the league but Jordan was still really good before the tragic offseason of 1990 that decimated the talent of the league.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ok let me outline this (in an effort to help you out) I understand that guys like you really can't refute what I am saying because you really aren't all that familiar with 80's basketball. Probably not familiar with 90's basketball either. Using vague talking points doesn't do much to substantiate your claims either. You are sort of rambling at this point.

Here is point 1 as to why the Pistons run was more impressive:

1. They had to beat both the Lakers and the Celtics in order to win a Championship. In some instances they had to beat both during the same season in order to win.


In so doing they had to run through two teams with at minimum 3 or 4 Hall of Famers on it. Not only were there Hall of Famers on those teams they 3 to 4 guys That were all time top 20.

Each team that the Bulls beat during the first 3peat (other than an aging Kareem less) Lakers team had only one Hall Of Famer. Of the 2nd 3 peat only Utah with Stockton and Malone had more than 1


2. Expansion. The NBA added 4 teams during the late 80's early 90's which severely depleted the talent pool on most teams. Thus it is quite ignorant and disingenuous to suggest that the talent pool was diluted simply "because the Bulls" won the Championship. It literally was diluted because of expansion.


3. The Pistons themselves had 3-4 Hall Of Fame players on it. Zeek, Dumars, Rodman. The Best Rodman actually. Laimbeer may also have been a Hall of Famer.

4. No one discounts the teams Jordan beat because they lost. They were regarded as "good" teams. No one ever regarded them as "great teams" however. Boston was considered "great" even in defeat. So was the Lakers.
You still haven't provided one team from that era that would have defeated the Lakers or Boston. Detroit had to beat both while both were in their primes. There is no "hypothetical" at work here. THey actually did it so it is already proven that they could.

5. The mere fact that a crappy ass Houston team won back to back championships is illustrative of just how weak the NBA of the 90's happened to be. There is no way in hell that a team that garbage would have been able to win in the 80's.

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In 89-90, they did not play either the Lakers or the Celtics. In 88-89, the Celtics were 42-40 and were the 8th seed in the Eastern Conference. Oh, how impressive. They did beat the Lakers in the Finals that year, 4-0, after beating the Bulls 4-2. By the way, the Bulls also played the Lakers in the Finals two years later. The same Lakers team that somehow proves something.

Oh really?
1988: 23 teams
1989: 25 teams
1990: 27 teams.

So, about those Pistons teams....

In fact, the NBA actually added 5 teams during the 80s and went from 18 teams in 1976 to 27 teams by 1989 so I don't think expansion really benefits your cause here.


Did they somehow stop being hall of fame players the year the Bulls beat them 4-0?

As I pointed out, the Pistons beat the 42-40 Celtics team that was the 8th best in the Eastern Conference. The year after, the Pistons did not beat either the Lakers or the Celtics in the playoffs. If you want to cite beating a 42-40 Celtics team as a great team from the 80s then you've already lost.

Wow. The NBA sure was trash in the 90s. Pretty much a lost decade of bad teams.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That 93 Suns team was amazing. The Bulls got lucky Ced Ceballos was out for the Finals. Sure, it doesn't mean the Suns would have won, but they were sure better with him.

So... they didn't want to win? Thought it was someone else's turn? If they could have easily done it why didnt they?
Christ this reminds me of arguing with my cousins 6 year old. This whole thing is freaking bizarre.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Do you actually have an actual point to make or you just rambling? Provide some specificity as opposed to disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing

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LTG: Nice thread you have there, it'd be a shame if someone took it over and ruined it

How much more specific can it get?
They couldn't have easily won 4. Because they didnt. That's as simple and specific as it gets.
If was easy they'd have easily won. How is this even remotely confusing?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

The mere fact that you can't even spin it to make it appear that Houston was any good just illustrates the point.

The mere fact that Houston won back to back titles proves that there was a significant dropoff during the 90's I could throw Utah going to Finals back to back year as evidence also. The same Utah with the Same Stockton and Malone that used to get drove during the late 80's all the way up through the mid to late 90's. They only sniffed anything looking like the Finals once the league had become watered down. Prior to that their ass were playoff jokes. Even though they had the same two "great players" the entire time. They couldn't do jack when the league was good.


With this last little treatise you are officially cooked!

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None of you care about basketball anyway so it wouldn't much matter remember. I'm done anyway. Brick is officially smoked.

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They were best team the Bulls defeated during their run. They were the only team that you could really put in the very good to "great" class.

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Is that all you got in response? Are you going to completely ignore the rest?

Houston was a bad team. Oh well.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

LTG declaring victory in the thread be like:

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Houston was not a bad team.

I don’t think Luc Longley matches up well against Hakeem.

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I addressed every point. YOu're smoked. read it or don't. I don't care. You can loop Utah in there as well. How does a team that couldn't do jack in the playoffs for 10-12 years all of sudden makes it to back to back finals? The same two guys that used to get their brains beat in on a routine basis by the way? If not for a watered down league then what?

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Compared to the teams of 80's they were shitty as hell. No way in hell they would have been able to match up with the Pistons, Lakers, Celtics, or Philly (early teams) with that roster. They are another squad that benefitted from a watered down league. And I'm an Hakeem guy.

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You did not address all the points.

I don't care about Houston. If you think they were bad it doesn't change my opinion at all on anything. The Bulls never even faced them in the playoffs.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

SO in your world all you have to go by is an Aging Pistons team? I addressed that also. You argued that 90's basketball didn't fall off. I just established that it did. Now you have been reduced to arguing whether the Bulls could have beat the Pistons. The Pistons beat Great Teams. The Bulls Didn't. They benefited from a watered down league. I proved my point and now I bid adieu. Next time be more specific and actually come to the dance with a tad bit more Apriori knowledge Brick.

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8 seed Celtics.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

8 seeds were tougher in the 80’s. Loaded with HOF players.

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