Doug Collins?

The Original Kid Cairo · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:20 pm

Beardown wrote:

I think, with Rose, Kirk will get more open jump shots that he can knock down.

But Kirk can't hit those open shots with any kind of consistency. He's just as likely to miss a wide open jumper as if there was a defender in his face.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:22 pm

Kid Cairo wrote:

Beardown wrote:

I think, with Rose, Kirk will get more open jump shots that he can knock down.

But Kirk can't hit those open shots with any kind of consistency. He's just as likely to miss a wide open jumper as if there was a defender in his face.

I agree, but that certainly wasnt the case before this season. He was an excellent knock down shooter before this season. I have to think there are other factors involved. The entire team regressed this season.

My Coach Vinny · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:24 pm

Get Rose. End of story.

Tall Midget · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:25 pm

FavreFan wrote:

Kid Cairo wrote:

Beardown wrote:

I think, with Rose, Kirk will get more open jump shots that he can knock down.

But Kirk can't hit those open shots with any kind of consistency. He's just as likely to miss a wide open jumper as if there was a defender in his face.

I agree, but that certainly wasnt the case before this season. He was an excellent knock down shooter before this season. I have to think there are other factors involved. The entire team regressed this season.

I dunno, Hinrich has always struck me as a streaky shooter. I would also add that he really lacks the size and athleticism to play the 2 effectively as a starter. In my mind, he is a classic third guard to bring off the bench at either position (in limited minutes).

Beebo · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:32 pm

Coach Crapowski wrote:

Get Rose. End of story.

The one thing that amuses me is that Score is advertising it as their breaking story. Isn't Hanley the Sun-Times Bull beat reporter? Maybe that's why he'd pick up on the breaking story? So whose breaking story is it?

Reading story from Tribune from K.C., (filed at ~2pm), I see,

Quote:

While sources have confirmed the former Bulls coach is expected to become the new Bulls coach, Paxson released the following statement Thursday afternoon: "I have been in contact with Doug Collins in regard to our head coaching position. Contrary to some reports that are currently out there, we have not reached an agreement.

Maybe not a story after all. Maybe Dougie is trolling the board to see how hardball to play it :-)

Beardown · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:29 pm **Posts:** 33998

Tall Midget wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Kid Cairo wrote:

Beardown wrote:

I think, with Rose, Kirk will get more open jump shots that he can knock down.

But Kirk can't hit those open shots with any kind of consistency. He's just as likely to miss a wide open jumper as if there was a defender in his face.

I agree, but that certainly wasnt the case before this season. He was an excellent knock down shooter before this season. I have to think there are other factors involved. The entire team regressed this season.

I dunno, Hinrich has always struck me as a streaky shooter. I would also add that he really lacks the size and athleticism to play the 2 effectively. In my mind, he is a classic third guard to bring off the bench at either position (in limited minutes).

I'd be fine with him off the bench too. You have Hughes and Hinrich right now. You can't get rid of both those contracts.

You can start Hughes. Hinrich can get decent minutes spelling Hughes and Rose.

What about Gordon? Bulls have him for one more year. I guess he can be a sign and trade this year.

If you draft Rose you can't go into the year with all of these guards. Somebody will be bitching real quick.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:33 pm

Nas wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

A 6'10" or 6'11" player is a center in the NBA.

So Durant is moving to Center next season? Your size has nothing to do with it, its all about your skill set. Beasley's skill set projects him to be a PF, and most scouting reports say if he does have a secondary positions, its a SF.

Ok let me be clear. A guy that height that is 250-260 is a center. Did that clear anything up?

It did but right now he's 6'9'' on a good day and 220-230. Dont assume hes gonna add two inches and 30 points in the next 5 months.

Also Bron is like 6'9'' 250, I dont think he plays Center.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:40 pm

Nas wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

A 6'10" or 6'11" player is a center in the NBA.

So Durant is moving to Center next season? Your size has nothing to do with it, its all about your skill set. Beasley's skill set projects him to be a PF, and most scouting reports say if he does have a secondary positions, its a SF.

Ok let me be clear. A guy that height that is 250-260 is a center. Did that clear anything up?

Kind of like Dirk Nowitzki, and Tim Duncan?

Brick · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:44 pm

Nas wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Nas wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Nas wrote:

Tall Midget wrote:

Beardown wrote:

I was thinking about this.

Doug isn't gonna take this job unless he knows who Pax is gonna take with this pick. You gotta believe that.

Doug strikes me as a guy that would want Rose. He would want that point guard. Don't you guys think so?

That's good news.

I broached this topic up thread. Collins is a certified Hinrich Ass-Licker, having said on multiple occasions that Hinrich is "on the verge of becoming an elite point guard". Does this mean he thinks he can rehabilitate Hinrich and will thus favor the selection of Beasley?

I hope so. Kirk is already under contract and may be hard to deal and Beasley would fill a need the Bulls haven't had since Cartwright left.

There is a better chance that Beasley becomes a SF than a C. I don't know where you are getting the fact that he'll eventually become a C but I haven't really seen that anywhere else.

He was 6'9" and 235 going into college. At 18 he is going to grow some more and I'm sure the Bulls staff with have him in the weight room. He will probably get up to 250 or 260. A 6'10" or 6'11" player is a center in the NBA.

Why are you the only one who is projecting him as a Center? I haven't seen that anywhere. In fact, I've seen him called SF/PF a few times.

He'll be a PF in the NBA.

I think he will grow an inch or two. He already has a nice frame and the Bulls will have him in the weight room filling it out some more. My point is a 6'10" or 6'11" guy that is 260 can play center in this league. While he may be a power forward the Bulls may slide him over if Ty Thomas ever gets it.

You can think all you want. No one, even people who are much closer to the league than you or I am, is projecting him at Center. You could make the same argument that Derrick Rose will end up a small forward because he'll grow 3 more inches since he's only 19.

I'm tall, and I barely grew after high school.

mr_gimp · **Joined:** Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:57 pm **Posts:** 476

[quote="Nas"]
We will find out if he is still 6'9" and 235lbs in a week or so. Most people don't stop growing at 18. [quote]

Most likely, he will measure at 6'8". If you watch his game, he is a face the basket shooter. He isn't an inside presence. That isn't what he likes to do.

He can't take the punishment of banging inside, in the NBA.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:45 pm

Nas wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Nas wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

A 6'10" or 6'11" player is a center in the NBA.

So Durant is moving to Center next season? Your size has nothing to do with it, its all about your skill set. Beasley's skill set projects him to be a PF, and most scouting reports say if he does have a secondary positions, its a SF.

Ok let me be clear. A guy that height that is 250-260 is a center. Did that clear anything up?

Kind of like Dirk Nowitzki, and Tim Duncan?

Dirks outside game to go with Duncan's inside game.

Which would make him a PF, like Duncan and Nowitzki. Nowitzki may be a 7 foot small forward.

My Coach Vinny · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:48 pm

Nas wrote:

Coach Crapowski wrote:

I'm the man! I'm 40!

http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=272786#272786

Even though I thought you were playing it was a good call.

Even then, the best guy available was Collins. I never bought into this whole D'Antony stuff. Show me a trophy that was won because of him. Hell, with a MVP PG, a legit C, and a littany of above average guards, I could coach that team to relative prominence.

Beardown · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:29 pm **Posts:** 33998

Good call Coach.

Tall Midget · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 3:59 pm

Nas wrote:

Tall Midget wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Tall Midget wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

He'll be a PF in the NBA.

Moreso in a couple of years than right away, wouldn't you say?

I can certainly see that. One of the things that scares me about Beasley is that he currently looks like a "tweener" to me. Sometimes it works out really well but sometimes it just doesn't carry over.

I think a lot of it will depend on what team drafts him. If he gets drafted by the Bulls, I think they will want to get Deng at the 3 and let Beasley play the 4.

If he doesn't grow anymore, he probably is always a SF.

I would agree with your assessment. I also think it's a mistake to assume that he will continue growing. How much has he grown in the past year, if at all? Does anywone know? And what is his true height?

We will find out if he is still 6'9" and 235lbs in a week or so. Most people don't stop growing at 18. Deng came into the league at 6'6" and he is almost 6'9". David Robinson grew 6 inches after his 18th birthday. Went to college as a guard came out a center.

From what I've read, men (on average) stop growing by age 20. Between ages 19 and 20, average growth is only around one inch. Beasley is currently about 19.5 years old. If he has grown in the past 6-12 months, it is likely he will continue to grow, but probably not by that much. If not, he may be done. I don't claim any expertise on this issue, but I've read that one's height can be accurately estimated through a medical examination of an individual's growth plates.

Tall Midget · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:00 pm

Coach Crapowski wrote:

Nas wrote:

Coach Crapowski wrote:

I'm the man! I'm 40!

http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=272786#272786

Even though I thought you were playing it was a good call.

Even then, the best guy available was Collins. I never bought into this whole D'Antony stuff. Show me a trophy that was won because of him. Hell, with a MVP PG, a legit C, and a littany of above average guards, I could coach that team to relative prominence.

Can you show me a trophy that was won because of Collins?

I like Collins, too, but your post seems a little drinky.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:01 pm

Nas wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Nas wrote:

FavreFan wrote:

Nas wrote:

A 6'10" or 6'11" player is a center in the NBA.

So Durant is moving to Center next season? Your size has nothing to do with it, its all about your skill set. Beasley's skill set projects him to be a PF, and most scouting reports say if he does have a secondary positions, its a SF.

Ok let me be clear. A guy that height that is 250-260 is a center. Did that clear anything up?

Kind of like Dirk Nowitzki, and Tim Duncan?

Dirks outside game to go with Duncan's inside game.

http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=20364

For all we know it could be Dirk's inside game and Duncan's outside game.

My Coach Vinny · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:16 pm

Tall Midget wrote:

Coach Crapowski wrote:

Nas wrote:

Coach Crapowski wrote:

I'm the man! I'm 40!

http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=272786#272786

Even though I thought you were playing it was a good call.

Even then, the best guy available was Collins. I never bought into this whole D'Antony stuff. Show me a trophy that was won because of him. Hell, with a MVP PG, a legit C, and a littany of above average guards, I could coach that team to relative prominence.

Can you show me a trophy that was won because of Collins?

I like Collins, too, but your post seems a little drinky.

Just to clarify. I'm not calling for deification or canonization. My point was simple, since Skiles' dismissal, the best guy available other than Skiles was and still is Collins. Unfortunately, not drinky, just looney.

Mustang Rob · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:26 pm

Looks to me that with this hire Pax has determined that the Bulls need a teaching/strategist coach more than a motivator/manager.

The biggest personality clashes will be Collins vs. Hughes and Collins vs. Tyrus.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:27 pm

Any coach worth his weight in salt would clash with Hughes. He's the guard version of Ben Wallace, right down to the contract and everything.

Mr. Reason · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:31 pm

Nice read fellas. It is nice to see some spirited sports debates, well done.

I don't think anything bad can come of this. Doug knows the game. If Pax has the "character" guys he claims he does, this team will be better when Doug get a hold of them. A little roster tweeking and they're on their way. To where, I'm not sure.

As, I think Midge speculated, I hope this means it will be Rose not Beasly.

Beardown · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:29 pm **Posts:** 33998

Nas wrote:

I'm having a flashback to 2006 offseason. I was on the Roy has the highest floor of any player that will be around and it would put the Bulls in a position to deal Gordon. A lot of you guys were high on Tyrus Thomas potential. In a way this similar to this debate of Beasley and Rose.

True. I was wrong on Thomas. But I know Rose is way better than Thomas.

Just because we were wrong on that doesn't mean Beasley is better than Rose.

Even the experts back than said Thomas was raw. They, like me, thought he would develop. We were wrong. Thomas doesn't care and won't develop. Rose is a different guy.

By the way, Tyrus and Collins will not be able to co-exist. Thomas is gonna have to go. Skiles never liked him either.

Mr. Reason · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:47 pm

Nas wrote:

I'm having a flashback to 2006 offseason. I was on the Roy has the highest floor of any player that will be around and it would put the Bulls in a position to deal Gordon. A lot of you guys were high on Tyrus Thomas potential. In a way this similar to this debate of Beasley and Rose.

Nas, you were on the Roy love and I was with you. He looked the part.
I have no real passion with these two. I did not see enough of either to have an informed opinion. I saw Rose more and have always loved big athletic PGs. Beasley would have to be a monster for me to rate him higher than a PG like Rose.
Nas, you may be right and Beasley may be the man. However, I am not sure about him growing more or not. I want to know how tall he really is.

Beardown · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:29 pm **Posts:** 33998

The one good thing about this draft: No matter who we take I think everybody agrees that neither will be a complete bust. Neither of them will suck. So at least we have that going for us.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:50 pm

Nas wrote:

I'm having a flashback to 2006 offseason. I was on the Roy has the highest floor of any player that will be around and it would put the Bulls in a position to deal Gordon. A lot of you guys were high on Tyrus Thomas potential. In a way this similar to this debate of Beasley and Rose.

Tyrus Thomas was very raw. He still is. Rose is a more polished player now than Tyrus Thomas.

You were right then, but if you think that Rose and Tyrus Thomas are anything alike then you are showing a lack of understanding of Derrick Rose's game. He has great potential, but he's already good. Tyrus Thomas wasn't good(for an NBA player) when he was drafted. Derrick Rose will be a starter on Miami or Chicago this season. He's an NBA ready talent.

I hope you use the same criteria for your judging of QB prospects based off of your assessment of Rex Grossman.

Tall Midget · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:50 pm

I think Beasley will average around 20 points/game in his rookie season. Not sure what Rose will do early.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:51 pm

Beardown wrote:

The one good thing about this draft: No matter who we take I think everybody agrees that neither will be a complete bust. Neither of them will suck. So at least we have that going for us.

I agree. I'd be just as excited with the 2nd pick and we get whoever else.

Both players will have good long careers.

FavreFan · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 4:55 pm

Tall Midget wrote:

I think Beasley will average around 20 points/game in his rookie season. Not sure what Rose will do early.

I agree but theres a huge difference between a Kevin Durant 20 ppg and a Tim Duncan 20 ppg as a rookie. Im not worried about his scoring, Im worried about the rest of his game.

Beardown · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:29 pm **Posts:** 33998

If Rose gets 32 minutes per game he'll average 17 and 8 his rookie year. You can book that. 2.2 steals per game.

That will get better each year. He'll evenually be a 22 and 11 guy that can beat you when the games on the line. With a shot, drive or pass.

doug - evergreen park · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 5:03 pm

Beardown wrote:

If Rose gets 32 minutes per game he'll average 17 and 8 his rookie year. You can book that. 2.2 steals per game.

That will get better each year. He'll evenually be a 22 and 11 guy that can beat you when the games on the line. With a shot, drive or pass.

agreed.

Mustang Rob · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 5:05 pm

Tall Midget wrote:

I think Beasley will average around 20 points/game in his rookie season. Not sure what Rose will do early.

He will not.
Durant barely did it this season on a team completely devoid of any stars.
If Beasley goes to the Heat he'll be at best the 3rd option after Wade and Marion, and he might not even start over Haslem.
If he comes to the Bulls he'll have the 14 & 9 that Gooden had this season.

Either way 12-15 pts & 7-9 boards would be a great rookie season.

Doug Collins?

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