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Probably because the last time he talked to a college student, the AP picked up on a story outing him and he wasn't even in.

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I think it's odd that it's happening at the most prestigious and probably the most progressive schools in the country. Princeton, Brown, Berkley, Yale. If you googled protests college campus I think you would be surprised to find how many there are.


There is quite a bit of nonsense in some of these protests. I think Evergreen state is an example.

Yeah, Princeton, Yale... Evergreen State.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

She said it was an example. And Evergreen State might be the BEST example of the student-as-activist nonsense.

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Just chillin' like Garret Quillin.

I didn't group it with the others for that reason.

It's terrible what went on there. I don't want to make too much of a statement about the student body but I'd prefer they not be the ones that are changing things.

I kind of wonder how or if hbcus will change over the next decade or so.

Students have been activists forever. Its the content, not the idea of students being activists. Maybe that's what you meant and I misunderstood.

It makes sense when you think of how politics is more us vs. them than ever. Those colleges are very liberal, so they protest the other side.


The days of the hippy/live and let live/everyone is alright left wing appear to be over.

I think that it is ironic that there were such violent rallies against free speech at Berkeley which was pretty much the bastion of free speech and protests in the 60's. Colleges and universities were supposed to be the one place in the United States where open two way discussions were protected and a great deal of pride was given on the part of those colleges and universities. Now, so many of these same places want to shut one side down.

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An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

It never really had to do with two way demonstrations and dialogues. The scenes may change and the topics as well but generally one side wants things to progress in some manner and direction and the other side is an enemy or obstacle.

Hippies when I was born wanted civil rights and a war to end. There was no other side they wished to accommodate.

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Elections have consequences.

Those hippies were/are good people.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No doubt. I would rather see a hippie girl put a flower in the barrel of a weapon than Curious Hair.

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Elections have consequences.

I for one believe they should have engaged in Rational Discourse with war supporters rather than attacking their free speech by shouting them down.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Are people under the impression that right-wing activists like David Horowitz and his ilk haven't been trying to intimidate, censor and otherwise constrain the research of liberal/left academics for years? This discussion seems very one-sided.

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I think this pretty much sums up the criticisms of today's academia...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSaA3Gk3AnE

I really have no problem with people disliking Ben Shapiro.....the respectable way of handling that is to not attend. I'm pretty sure the Sam Seder / Matt Bruenig / Bill Press geniuses of the world do not get treated this way and I'm sure there are plenty of those progressives invited to speak more frequently.

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Were war supporters shouted down? I think it may have been the other way around.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, all that happens to Matt Bruenig is people call his bosses and pressure them to fire him.

EDIT: That happened to Sam Seder, too.

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Interesting....I did not know that happened to Seder, too. I guess we need a different thread for People that don't allow crossing Hillary.

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Looks like they think it is more a fun thing to do then really caring about it. Almost like a generation now feels they must do things because their boomer grandparents and parents (if older) made such a difference. They try too hard.

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Elections have consequences.

Are you serious? Vietnam war protestors were poster children for uncivil discourse and protests. Robert McNamara could scarcely visit universities because SDS members and others were such big meanies to him. If they didn't like what he had to say, they could simply choose not to attend his visits rather than harassing him.

And don't even get me started about sit-ins, strikes, and outbreaks of violence; it seems to me such illegal and irrational acts were only used as a strategy because those snowflakes students simply could not rationally contend with war supporters in the free marketplace of ideas.

Maybe you should re-read what you wrote. It seems like you were saying that it was supporters of the war that were doing the shouting.

I guess I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. That college students have been shouting since the 60s? Who is saying they haven't?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Maybe you should. Both my posts correctly implicate the irrational and regressive anti-war students who shouted down war supporters, among other dishonorable things.

It's still not real clear what you're trying to say. Are you criticizing the students who shouted down war supporters? I would be surprised if you were.

But if you aren't, as I suspect. Do you really consider the morality of trying to stop the Vietnam War to being similar to that of trying to stop Ben Shapiro?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I think you're crazy if you don't think any of the coverage of those damn college kids these days does in fact attempt to paint them as categorically different, more dangerous, and more irrational than previous generations. That's like half the shtick of the people who obsessively write about this stuff.

And of course, the other point I'm making is that, contra FavreFan and pittmike, the attacks on free speech and other tactics of anti-war protestors disqualifies them from being categorized as good people.

I think that the coverage is completely different in the Internet age than it was in the 60s. And I also think there is a huge difference between fighting for free speech and fighting against it. The students in the 60s were fighting for power. The students today have power.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I agree the coverage is different, which feeds directly into efforts to suggest students are worse than ever. Insignificant incidents of heckling that would barely receive any traction in previous decades are now seized on and given national coverage to suggest students are crazier than ever.

As for having the power, I'd ask in what sense. Certainly not on campuses themselves, as the administrators and trustees are still always the ultimate shotcallers. And certainly not in the real world either, unless you think the views of the students from cherrypicked incidents at elite universities have the slightest bit of influence on present-day decision makers.

Finally, as I've said before, the majority of right wing free speech concern trolls on issues like heckling but also stuff like trigger warnings are the same people doing their best to continue the corporatization of universities. But one thing about bringing that model to campuses is that the customer is always right, so many of the complaints about not dealing with ideas or being challenged properly ring especially hollow to me.

Yep.

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Just chillin' like Garret Quillin.

The student wasn't seen as a customer when I was in school in the same way he seems to be now. And I'm not saying that's the fault of the student. There are many more administrators than there were in the 80s. And the institution has been tailored to respond to every complaint and whim of the student in a way that it wasn't before. Maybe your argument is that that's a good thing, progress. But I don't think you can argue that it isn't the case.

Also, there's this groundswell of support for "free college". I think stopping the university from gouging its students because they know that they will be paid via cheap easy-to-get government backed loans would be a better start. I'm getting a little far afield here now though.

The bottom line is that the university, i.e. administration and faculty, is not adversarial to the students acting out in the same way administrations in the 60s or even the 80s were. In fact, they're often sympathetic. That's what I mean by having power. It's one thing to have a starched shirt in the dean's office who supported Nixon and you're a young guy protesting the war and quite another when the university president hates Charles Murray or Donald Trump or Ben Shapiro more than you do.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The students are succeeding in have several people removed right or wrong. They are also shaping the administrators and trustees which I think is a detriment to the faculty and education itself. I think they have more power and influence than you think especially at the affluent and more liberal colleges.