He isn't as good as Marbury coming into the league. Not close.

The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.

I don't think he would have gotten it as fast without a player like David. Maybe he averages 15 points in his first year. David was an all around player and Duncan is the same way except he is more polished fundamentally.

With better players. There isn't a conference USA in the NBA. You don't get to play against DII talent.

You don't know that and I don't know that either. What I do know is he only had 10 assists in 2 games. I also know that he averaged 5 assists and 3 turnovers and shot 70% from the FT line. I don't see those numbers improving in his first year in the league. He is a 4 or 5 year project. At that time I see him being at the level of a Chris Paul.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36204

Here you go: Kirk Hinrich averaged 12 and 7 his rookie year. C'mon. Rose can get 17 and 8.

Somewhere in this thread I passed 15000.

Somewhere in this thread I passed 15000.

I don't like white rappers.

All I am saying is that all reports on how Collins was released, why he was released and how him and Jerry R felt about each other are very wrong by almost every single reporter, including former beat guy current diddler, Terry B.

He was fired for Basketball reasons only. end of story! That does not mean he might not have been doing other things, (none of them owners wives or daughters) but that is not why he was released.

The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.

Hmm, why?

Amazing how two words generated 9 pages worth of shit.

Problem No. 2: Youth

Collins' history is that he gets an immediate jump from his team -- then things level off in subsequent seasons.

There's a reason for that. Few coaches in recent history have trusted young players less than Collins has. Obviously, there's the infamous Kwame Brown saga, but his obvious discomfort with any young player who isn't an immediate star goes well beyond that.

Collins was particularly over the top in this respect in his most recent tenure, in Washington, and not just with Brown. While 22-year-old Bobby Simmons sat at the end of the bench for two years, 32-year-old Bryon Russell played and was horribly ineffective. While 25-year-old Brian Cardinal sat, 39-year-old Charles Oakley got plenty of time to prove how washed up he was. While 22-year-old Brendan Haywood sat, 32-year-old Popeye Jones played. You get the picture.

Although Detroit and Chicago weren't exactly awash in young talent with Collins as coach, he didn't get much out of the young 'uns there, either. In Detroit, rookies Aaron McKie and Theo Ratliff were two of his most effective players in 1996-97, but they came off the bench behind the veterans; a third productive rookie, Jerome Williams, hardly played at all. In Chicago, he played 23-year-old rookie Will Perdue 190 minutes in 1988-89 … or 99 minutes fewer than he played future towel-waver Jack Haley.

Obviously, if you look at Chicago's current roster, this portends a serious problem. Rose or Beasley will play no matter what, presumably, but what of younger players with less impressive pedigrees? Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas need to get experience and play though their mistakes, but one worries Collins will pull the plug on them after the first miscue and put in whatever decrepit 32-year-old veteran the Bulls sign for the minimum this summer. Ditto for Thabo Sefolosha and Aaron Gray.

In short, for a young team to hire a coach so suspicious of youth is a head-scratcher.