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KDdidit
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:12 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Did I miss someone here saying Hill should go to prison or are you "People on twitter are saying" me?


Read the thread. Spiral suggested it earlier. Most of your arguing here seems to be entirely off topic.

Spiral suggested
SpiralStairs wrote:
It's not as though he has to return the money he's already earned, and it's not as though he's going to be incapable of earning money in the future. If he continues to be a threat to his girlfriend and child then the law is going to get involved.

To take the position that he should face zero consequences because he might harm his child and girlfriend now that he can't play football is asinine.

If playing football is the only thing that decreases the likelihood of him abusing his family he should be in jail, not on a football field.


That's not Spiral suggesting Hill should be in jail.
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WaitingforRuffcorn
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:13 am 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
He said he's now poor and has a reason to hold a grudge.


Is that not true? I think his overall point is that not allowing him to play football doesn't help the situation and in fact probably hurts it. That's why we have a legal system to address such matters. If we are truly looking to help the mother and child resolve a dangerous situation, not allowing the guy to earn a living is probably not the right idea. If a factory worker beats his wife and kids, should we eliminate his ability to make income by firing him or should we allow the justice system to take care of that and bot bring his personal matters into his work life?


Tyreek Hill, unless he is phenomenally bad at managing his money, is not poor. And while it's true that he might hold a grudge, that isn't a compelling reason to keep him employed. Framing the argument that way also takes away any agency the woman and child have in this situation, which is really my larger issue with this argument.

The league has "helped" domestic abusers in the past by requiring them to go through anger management or some other form of counseling before they are allowed to play again.

The league is different than a factory because it is far less tolerant to having its brand damaged.


The agency of the women and child is taken away because the father remains gainfully employed?

It's bad PR for the NFL. I would agree with that. What I am suggesting is that generally it's better to have the abuser still have a job if you want he or she to improve their lives and make up for past transgressions. I would suggest that it's better to have him play football than do something that earns less money that he is also less suited for. I think trying a counseling and rehabilitation solution first is preferable to alternatives.

I grant you that this is not how things have been done in the past, but I think in worrying about the image of the league we are not really looking out for the true victim in the case- his son. Maybe Tyreke is beyond help. I don't know.

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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:14 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Why couldn't they use their tremendous resources to help him while keeping him employed? Wouldn't that be the best scenario for all involved?


There must be some weird psychological factor involved. Where there is no rehabilitation and return to life for athletes but it is demanded for similar segments of society in general.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:15 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
That's the decision of the company that pays you. If the NFL doesn't want to employ him, then by all means, don't. But it is their decision alone, and it almost certainly does not help society. If you were really concerned about society or the kid, you would want the NFL to use its massive resources to help rehabilitate him. And you're crazy if you think the NFL cuts him due to some sense of morality. It's all about money.
Yeah, so you now seem to agree the NFL/team is right to do what they are doing.


I do not. I'm just saying they have the right to do so. However, it does not help the situation in any way. That's what WfR said and was somehow mocked for.
Why doesn't it help the situation? The consequences of his actions were severe. The legal system barely did anything to him especially with his money. Also, we don't really know how many other players have learned from this and other guys who have derailed careers based on things like this.

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WaitingforRuffcorn
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:16 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Did I miss someone here saying Hill should go to prison or are you "People on twitter are saying" me?


Read the thread. Spiral suggested it earlier. Most of your arguing here seems to be entirely off topic.

Spiral suggested
SpiralStairs wrote:
It's not as though he has to return the money he's already earned, and it's not as though he's going to be incapable of earning money in the future. If he continues to be a threat to his girlfriend and child then the law is going to get involved.

To take the position that he should face zero consequences because he might harm his child and girlfriend now that he can't play football is asinine.

If playing football is the only thing that decreases the likelihood of him abusing his family he should be in jail, not on a football field.


That's not Spiral suggesting Hill should be in jail.



Ok.

What are you arguing anymore?

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Caller Bob
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:16 am 
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pittmike wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Why couldn't they use their tremendous resources to help him while keeping him employed? Wouldn't that be the best scenario for all involved?


There must be some weird psychological factor involved. Where there is no rehabilitation and return to life for athletes but it is demanded for similar segments of society in general.


Rehabilitated? That's a bullshit word, so you just go on ahead and post your message there, sonny, and stop wasting my damn time. Truth is, I don't give a shit.
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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:17 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
That's the decision of the company that pays you. If the NFL doesn't want to employ him, then by all means, don't. But it is their decision alone, and it almost certainly does not help society. If you were really concerned about society or the kid, you would want the NFL to use its massive resources to help rehabilitate him. And you're crazy if you think the NFL cuts him due to some sense of morality. It's all about money.
Yeah, so you now seem to agree the NFL/team is right to do what they are doing.


I do not. I'm just saying they have the right to do so. However, it does not help the situation in any way. That's what WfR said and was somehow mocked for.
Why doesn't it help the situation? The consequences of his actions were severe. The legal system barely did anything to him especially with his money. Also, we don't really know how many other players have learned from this and other guys who have derailed careers based on things like this.


So you believe that private industry should act as the arbiter of what punishment is appropriate from the legal system?

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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:18 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
pittmike wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Why couldn't they use their tremendous resources to help him while keeping him employed? Wouldn't that be the best scenario for all involved?


There must be some weird psychological factor involved. Where there is no rehabilitation and return to life for athletes but it is demanded for similar segments of society in general.


Rehabilitated? That's a bullshit word, so you just go on ahead and post your message there, sonny, and stop wasting my damn time. Truth is, I don't give a shit.


Are you having a stroke.

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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:18 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
That's the decision of the company that pays you. If the NFL doesn't want to employ him, then by all means, don't. But it is their decision alone, and it almost certainly does not help society. If you were really concerned about society or the kid, you would want the NFL to use its massive resources to help rehabilitate him. And you're crazy if you think the NFL cuts him due to some sense of morality. It's all about money.
Yeah, so you now seem to agree the NFL/team is right to do what they are doing.


I do not. I'm just saying they have the right to do so. However, it does not help the situation in any way. That's what WfR said and was somehow mocked for.
Why doesn't it help the situation? The consequences of his actions were severe. The legal system barely did anything to him especially with his money. Also, we don't really know how many other players have learned from this and other guys who have derailed careers based on things like this.


So you believe that private industry should act as the arbiter of what punishment is appropriate from the legal system?


For certain things many seem to think so.

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Caller Bob
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:20 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
pittmike wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Why couldn't they use their tremendous resources to help him while keeping him employed? Wouldn't that be the best scenario for all involved?


There must be some weird psychological factor involved. Where there is no rehabilitation and return to life for athletes but it is demanded for similar segments of society in general.


Rehabilitated? That's a bullshit word, so you just go on ahead and post your message there, sonny, and stop wasting my damn time. Truth is, I don't give a shit.


Are you having a stroke.


I know what you think it means. Me, I think it's a made-up word, a CFMB posters word. A word so young fellas like you can have an account and hate on LTG. What do you really want to know?
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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:23 am 
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Sorry we ruined your thread, Bob.

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Caller Bob
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:24 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Sorry we ruined your thread, Bob.


I still love you more than my own daddy.
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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:26 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Sorry we ruined your thread, Bob.


I still love you more than my own daddy.


Leash your son needs a well check visit. Stat.

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KDdidit
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:26 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
Did I miss someone here saying Hill should go to prison or are you "People on twitter are saying" me?


Read the thread. Spiral suggested it earlier. Most of your arguing here seems to be entirely off topic.

Spiral suggested
SpiralStairs wrote:
It's not as though he has to return the money he's already earned, and it's not as though he's going to be incapable of earning money in the future. If he continues to be a threat to his girlfriend and child then the law is going to get involved.

To take the position that he should face zero consequences because he might harm his child and girlfriend now that he can't play football is asinine.

If playing football is the only thing that decreases the likelihood of him abusing his family he should be in jail, not on a football field.


That's not Spiral suggesting Hill should be in jail.



Ok.

What are you arguing anymore?


Nothing now that we got your prison non-Sequitur out of the way.
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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:28 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
So you believe that private industry should act as the arbiter of what punishment is appropriate from the legal system?
I don't know where you got that. The legal system decides certain punishments for offenders, whether they are monetary or include jail time. They should do just that.

A private(or public) company that hires someone should be allowed to take into account the known information to make the decision they feel is best. This is even more justifiable when the person they are hiring is a public figure and the company relies on that person as a public representative of their organization. As I said, it would be a terrible way to run the league where the test is basically "Are you in jail? If not, then it's all good".

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:29 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nobody is separating him from his ability to earn an income. In my scenario they are separating him from his ability to earn one playing in the NFL. That is a substantially different thing.


It's not, though. Tyreek Hill was born to play football and probably spent his entire life acquiring this skill at the detriment of other skills. Now we're telling him he can't use that skill.

Right, because when you break your kid's arm and threaten your fiancee and it's recorded, you lose a lot of privileges you previously had. That's just how life works. I still don't quite understand what you and WFR are arguing.


That's why we have a legal system. Working isn't a "right." If it were a right, this would be a much different conversation. Employers can fire employees for any reason they want.

The NFL is a private company that can do whatever it wants, but there is no moral imperative for them to do so. If you think that the solution to Tyreek Hill being a bad guy is just to disallow him from work, then you're really not getting at a solution. It likely makes the situation worse, as WfR stated and was mocked for. That's my point.

I disagree. Making the situation worse would be the NFL ignoring it and pretending that he's a fine citizen and everything is good with them.


Why couldn't they use their tremendous resources to help him while keeping him employed? Wouldn't that be the best scenario for all involved?

Can't help a guy who doesn't want help.

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WaitingforRuffcorn
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:29 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
Nothing now that we got your prison non-Sequitur out of the way.


Yeah. Prison is not an option for child abusers.

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:30 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
So you believe that private industry should act as the arbiter of what punishment is appropriate from the legal system?
I don't know where you got that. The legal system decides certain punishments for offenders, whether they are monetary or include jail time. They should do just that.

A private(or public) company that hires someone should be allowed to take into account the known information to make the decision they feel is best. This is even more justifiable when the person they are hiring is a public figure and the company relies on that person as a public representative of their organization. As I said, it would be a terrible way to run the league where the test is basically "Are you in jail? If not, then it's all good".


I don't disagree with any of that. They have a right to employ whoever they want. Never said otherwise.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:32 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that. They have a right to employ whoever they want. Never said otherwise.
What are you arguing then? You have me completely confused. Every other post is you arguing with me and then saying you agree with me.

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:36 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that. They have a right to employ whoever they want. Never said otherwise.
What are you arguing then? You have me completely confused. Every other post is you arguing with me and then saying you agree with me.


I disagree that the NFL firing him does any good for anyone involved, and I agree with WfR that it probably actually does more harm than good. However, the NFL absolutely has the right to fire him for any reason.

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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:36 am 
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Suspend him for eight games or a year if even possible, then see what happens. The NFL's brand lost me when they quietly charged the military $7-9MM for their phony Salute to the Military promotion.

Plus an alleged rapist just got a two year extension, and no one batted an eye. Happens in pro sports all the time. Some of them go on to win all kinds of awards and even a curious love.

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:39 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Suspend him for eight games or a year if even possible, then see what happens. The NFL's brand lost me when they quietly charged the military $7-9MM for their phony Salute to the Military promotion.

Plus an alleged rapist just got a two year extension, and no one batted an eye. Happens in pro sports all the time. Some of them go on to win all kinds of awards and even a curious love.


Agreed. Anything large companies do regarding this stuff is all for their own image. The NFL doesn't give a shit about Tyreek Hill or his family. We should stop pretending otherwise.

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Caller Bob
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:39 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:

Plus an alleged rapist just got a two year extension, and no one batted an eye. Happens in pro sports all the time. Some of them go on to win all kinds of awards and even a curious love.


Yup
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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:40 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that. They have a right to employ whoever they want. Never said otherwise.
What are you arguing then? You have me completely confused. Every other post is you arguing with me and then saying you agree with me.


I disagree that the NFL firing him does any good for anyone involved, and I agree with WfR that it probably actually does more harm than good. However, the NFL absolutely has the right to fire him for any reason.
It does do good for the league as a whole, and gives a real consequence to that type of behavior to a guy that probably won't serve any jail time for it. It also does serve as a deterrent to others.

I am arguing that the NFL/team would be right in enacting additional punishment so I don't know why you keep on saying you agree.

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:46 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that. They have a right to employ whoever they want. Never said otherwise.
What are you arguing then? You have me completely confused. Every other post is you arguing with me and then saying you agree with me.


I disagree that the NFL firing him does any good for anyone involved, and I agree with WfR that it probably actually does more harm than good. However, the NFL absolutely has the right to fire him for any reason.
It does do good for the league as a whole, and gives a real consequence to that type of behavior to a guy that probably won't serve any jail time for it. It also does serve as a deterrent to others.

I am arguing that the NFL/team would be right in enacting additional punishment so I don't know why you keep on saying you agree.


It's really not that hard. We both agree that the NFL has a right to employ him or not employ him.

However, we disagree because I don't subscribe to the delusion that the NFL gives two shits about any of it. The NFL exists to make money, period. I also disagree completely with your assertion that a private company should be divvying out punishments based on how appropriate they think the legal system was. Do they have the right to do that? Yeah, but they shouldn't. Next time a factory worker beats his wife, maybe you can petition his employer for a harsher sentence. See how many unintended consequences that has? The legal system exists for a reason.

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:47 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that. They have a right to employ whoever they want. Never said otherwise.
What are you arguing then? You have me completely confused. Every other post is you arguing with me and then saying you agree with me.


I disagree that the NFL firing him does any good for anyone involved, and I agree with WfR that it probably actually does more harm than good. However, the NFL absolutely has the right to fire him for any reason.
It does do good for the league as a whole, and gives a real consequence to that type of behavior to a guy that probably won't serve any jail time for it. It also does serve as a deterrent to others.

I am arguing that the NFL/team would be right in enacting additional punishment so I don't know why you keep on saying you agree.


It's really not that hard. We both agree that the NFL has a right to employ him or not employ him.

However, we disagree because I don't subscribe to the delusion that the NFL gives two shits about any of it. The NFL exists to make money, period. I also disagree completely with your assertion that a private company should be divvying out punishments based on how appropriate they think the legal system was. Do they have the right to do that? Yeah, but they shouldn't. Next time a factory worker beats his wife, maybe you can petition his employer for a harsher sentence. See how many unintended consequences that has? The legal system exists for a reason.

OK, but we all should really stop with the factory worker comparisons. Playing WR in the NFL isn't anything close to or comparable with working on an assembly line or in an office. The anonymity vs public face aspect is and should be a big factor in how each "company" views its employees and their off hours lives.

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Last edited by FavreFan on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:47 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that. They have a right to employ whoever they want. Never said otherwise.
What are you arguing then? You have me completely confused. Every other post is you arguing with me and then saying you agree with me.


I disagree that the NFL firing him does any good for anyone involved, and I agree with WfR that it probably actually does more harm than good. However, the NFL absolutely has the right to fire him for any reason.
It does do good for the league as a whole, and gives a real consequence to that type of behavior to a guy that probably won't serve any jail time for it. It also does serve as a deterrent to others.

I am arguing that the NFL/team would be right in enacting additional punishment so I don't know why you keep on saying you agree.


It's really not that hard. We both agree that the NFL has a right to employ him or not employ him.

However, we disagree because I don't subscribe to the delusion that the NFL gives two shits about any of it. The NFL exists to make money, period. I also disagree completely with your assertion that a private company should be divvying out punishments based on how appropriate they think the legal system was. Do they have the right to do that? Yeah, but they shouldn't. Next time a factory worker beats his wife, maybe you can petition his employer for a harsher sentence. See how many unintended consequences that has? The legal system exists for a reason.

OK, but we all should really stop with the factory worker comparisons. Playing WR in the NFL isn't anything close to or comparable with working on an assembly line or in an office.


Why? And who says so?

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:49 am 
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As to the why, I edited to add more to my last post. As to who decides, well that's obvious, the company does, and we both agree they have a right to.

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 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:50 am 
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The discussion sucks, we need 312 to post some more crazy shit.
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Caller Bob
 Post subject: Re: Sign Tyreke Hill
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:51 am 
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Or we can make fun of Jews?
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