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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:02 pm 
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FF you value late first round draft picks way too much, NOLA got jack shit for the brow and OKC got jack shit for PG.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:06 pm 
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312player wrote:
FF you value late first round draft picks way too much, NOLA got jack shit for the brow and OKC got jack shit for PG.

But OKC got PG for nothing but money. Now they have many tangible assets that they could never get otherwise.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:10 pm 
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312player wrote:
FF you value late first round draft picks way too much, NOLA got jack shit for the brow and OKC got jack shit for PG.

Wrong. NOLA destroyed the Lakers on that trade and if AD doesn’t resign it becomes one of the worst trades in history. Kawhi and George are only on the Clippers for 2 more years guaranteed and many of those picks don’t vest for another 4-6 years. It was a tremendous haul by both teams and virtually nobody connected to the league argues otherwise.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:11 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
312player wrote:
FF you value late first round draft picks way too much, NOLA got jack shit for the brow and OKC got jack shit for PG.

But OKC got PG for nothing but money. Now they have many tangible assets that they could never get otherwise.

SGA is also one of the more promising young PGs in the league.

Edit: and Gallanari is a fine trade piece this year. OKC made out like bandits.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:13 pm 
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Also it’s important to keep in mind that OKC was the very definition of Basketball Hell that so many on here decry as the worst thing ever. So they got themselves out of that and in return got the largest trade package in the history of the NBA. And you got folks on here arguing it was bad offseason for them :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:14 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nardi wrote:
312player wrote:
FF you value late first round draft picks way too much, NOLA got jack shit for the brow and OKC got jack shit for PG.

But OKC got PG for nothing but money. Now they have many tangible assets that they could never get otherwise.

SGA is also one of the more promising young PGs in the league.

Edit: and Gallanari is a fine trade piece this year. OKC made out like bandits.

Agreed. SGA has a high ceiling, no doubt


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:26 pm 
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IMU wrote:
You are not viewing the Thunder as a business, and that is your problem. You have no idea how this will affect future revenues and a multitude of other factors. How many millions did they specifically put into Paul George/Thunder marketing after they signed him to the contract? What spending did the organization do since they were counting on a certain level of ticket and merchandising sales over the course of George's contract?
Once again I'm left wondering why none of this could equivalently be written about Blake Griffin, who you suggest should just be fine with everything cause he still gets his salary. What about the potential sponsorship revenue of Blake Griffin As A Business in LA compared to luxurious Detroit? Not to mention any planning he may have done for his future and his family based on being located in LA. If the response to this is that he had to know he could've been traded, then likewise any potential sunken revenue and other factors are already taken into account by the Thunder well in advance of any decision to execute the trade.

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On the basketball side, first round draft picks are still lottery tickets. The Clippers aren't going to be in the lottery anytime soon, and I don't even know what protections were placed on any of them.
On the basketball side, the Pistons aren't going to be any good any time soon. That may have been exactly the kind of consideration Griffin took into account in electing to sign with a team that shortly thereafter reneged on its promise that he'd be a Clipper for life.

More to the point, those picks have very loose if any protections and the Clippers could be bad as soon as 2 years from now.

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OKC was told they would have an unhappy star player on their team if they did not trade PG. They had a gun to their head, and you can attempt to (and fail to) spin it however you like.
New Orleans was literally told the same thing and elected to wait until an offer they deemed acceptable was presented to them. OKC could have very easily done the same since they had far more leverage but chose not to because they got an insane offer that gets them out of cap hell on the treadmill (surely another one of those business considerations you claim I'm neglecting) and a jumpstart on a rebuild.
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I'm going to guess that as an individual you're very 'pro Labor?'
I am but it's hardly any kind of staunch pro-labor argument to suggest complaints and proposed punishments for disloyalty should go both ways.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:30 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nobody is happier with how this offseason went than Sam Presti. This is a very amusing spin.

Unequivocally false.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:34 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nardi wrote:
312player wrote:
FF you value late first round draft picks way too much, NOLA got jack shit for the brow and OKC got jack shit for PG.

But OKC got PG for nothing but money. Now they have many tangible assets that they could never get otherwise.

SGA is also one of the more promising young PGs in the league.

Edit: and Gallanari is a fine trade piece this year. OKC made out like bandits.

Agreed. SGA has a high ceiling, no doubt


He will be better than Trae Young. To be debated in another thread at some point.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:35 pm 
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IMU wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nobody is happier with how this offseason went than Sam Presti. This is a very amusing spin.

Unequivocally false.

No it’s true. No GM ever got handed a more valuable get out of jail free card recently.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:41 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
To cite my argument, there is a NBA reporter named Adrian Wojnarowski who seems pretty well connected who felt strong enough to come out and say that warm weather and playing at home was his top priority.

https://clipperholics.com/2018/12/17/la-clippers-rumors-kawhi-still-wants-los-angeles/


That was written 6 months ago :lol:
It proved 100% correct.

If it was 100% correct then the debate would have been between the Lakers and Clippers. Instead it was between the Raptors and Clippers. Out of those three teams the Raptors and Clippers both have a reputation of being first class organizations and the Lakers are a clown show. Seems like the evidence he values competency the most is much stronger than the evidence he values geography the most.

6 months ago he said it was the Clippers because of weather and proximity to home. He signed with the Clippers. I will continue to think geography was what drove the decision. You can think it is because the Clippers are a first class organization even though he chose to leave two other first class organizations so far in his career.


Kawhi Leonard signed with the Clippers moreso because of Geography. He also signed with them because Paul George was coming with him. I don't believe Laker mismanagement played much of a role in his decision.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:46 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
To cite my argument, there is a NBA reporter named Adrian Wojnarowski who seems pretty well connected who felt strong enough to come out and say that warm weather and playing at home was his top priority.

https://clipperholics.com/2018/12/17/la-clippers-rumors-kawhi-still-wants-los-angeles/


That was written 6 months ago :lol:
It proved 100% correct.

If it was 100% correct then the debate would have been between the Lakers and Clippers. Instead it was between the Raptors and Clippers. Out of those three teams the Raptors and Clippers both have a reputation of being first class organizations and the Lakers are a clown show. Seems like the evidence he values competency the most is much stronger than the evidence he values geography the most.

6 months ago he said it was the Clippers because of weather and proximity to home. He signed with the Clippers. I will continue to think geography was what drove the decision. You can think it is because the Clippers are a first class organization even though he chose to leave two other first class organizations so far in his career.


Kawhi Leonard signed with the Clippers moreso because of Geography. He also signed with them because Paul George was coming with him. I don't believe Laker mismanagement played much of a role in his decision.

So you think playing with George is more appealing than playing with LeBron and AD? If he signed with the Lakers they would have been Warriors level favorites over the rest of the league. After he believed the Spurs mismanagement of his injury jeopardized his career I think it became clear he values competent front offices over anything else. I don’t necessarily agree with him on the SA thing but I do believe he thinks they wronged him.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:49 pm 
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Ltg, Woj, and Boilermaker Rick all agree. It is a fact.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:59 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ltg, Woj, and Boilermaker Rick all agree. It is a fact.

Woj six months ago shortly after the trade happened*

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:01 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:

That was written 6 months ago :lol:
It proved 100% correct.

If it was 100% correct then the debate would have been between the Lakers and Clippers. Instead it was between the Raptors and Clippers. Out of those three teams the Raptors and Clippers both have a reputation of being first class organizations and the Lakers are a clown show. Seems like the evidence he values competency the most is much stronger than the evidence he values geography the most.

6 months ago he said it was the Clippers because of weather and proximity to home. He signed with the Clippers. I will continue to think geography was what drove the decision. You can think it is because the Clippers are a first class organization even though he chose to leave two other first class organizations so far in his career.


Kawhi Leonard signed with the Clippers moreso because of Geography. He also signed with them because Paul George was coming with him. I don't believe Laker mismanagement played much of a role in his decision.

So you think playing with George is more appealing than playing with LeBron and AD? If he signed with the Lakers they would have been Warriors level favorites over the rest of the league. After he believed the Spurs mismanagement of his injury jeopardized his career I think it became clear he values competent front offices over anything else. I don’t necessarily agree with him on the SA thing but I do believe he thinks they wronged him.


Being sucked into all things Lebron isn't all its cracked up to be. Kawhi is a better player than Lebron James right now but on the Lakers he'd have to take backseat to him. Probably AD also.

He has two rings already and probably surmised that He George and a much better coach and supporting cast would be more than enough to pop the Lakers.

He also probably didn't want to be KD'd for the rest of his career.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:07 pm 
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I agree with all that but if all he wanted to do was go to LA and win that was the clear path.

Obviously none of us will agree and Woj himself will tell you nobody knows what Kawhi really values outside of Uncle Dennis but I think it’s clear he’s a different type of dude than most and this was about being comfortable with a team and situation and putting his own thing together with a front office he trusts than anything else. He trusts the Clippers in Ballmer’s hands and got his running mate and put everything together without it being some crazy 3 HOFers team. Love what he did. He’s proved everything he’s ever needed to before this and now put his own thing together without it being something that kills the competitive balance of the league. I just think he would’ve considered it elsewhere than LA in the right situation and the reports that he told the Raptors the same thing but they weren’t willing to deal Siakam for it sort of backs me up that the LA part of it was a benefit, not the main factor.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:09 pm 
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The fact is that no team in the NBA has the cap room for 2 max FAs outside of the coastal big city teams so it’s a little funny to hear these complaints in lieu of that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:47 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Nardi wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
If the NBA wants to get away from players clustering in a few cities they need to go to a hard salary cap.

It is a hard salary cap for a new team picking up a FA. Kawhi took less to go to LA. A lot less from what I read.


Hard cap for everyone. If you couldn't go above the cap to sign your own players the league would look a lot different.

I guess I'm not following your train of thought. How does a hard salary cap stop LeBron, Durant, Kawhi, Irving, Butler etc from leaving? Teams will still find ways to find salary space for the tip-toppiest of top players, will they not?


If you get rid of all the exceptions it is impossible to build a team like Golden St or the Heat unless they all take significantly less money the entire time they are there.

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