I think Goff is being propped up. He looks like a deer in headlights whenever his hand isn't being held. I believe that Nagy protected (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky a lot last season but (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky looked solid as the season went along when Nagy wasn't holding his hand.

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Agree to disagree on the last part there. And it's not just hand holding, it's scheming guys wide open. Nick Mullens probably isn't very good but with Kyle Shanahan he put up similar numbers to Jimmy G last year. A great offensive coach is invaluable to a young QB and you can kinda see the guys that wouldn't be nearly as good without one. Mitch is in that group. Mahomes and Watson aren't.

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How is Mahomes not in that group at least a little? He had a offensive minded coach with him and a ton of talent. I get he has a ton of talent but he had a lot around him too

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

PRO BOWL Mitch (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky isn’t a star??

I think Nagy and Reid really helped Mahomes. I think Watson is overrated. His numbers were slightly worse than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's before (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky got injured.

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I'm with you on this.

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Because he looks like a star regardless of who he's throwing to. Of course he's not joining the 5,000/50 club on a different team but he would still be great regardless.

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His numbers are way better than Mitch's. They aren't comparable.

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The Athletic just ranked him as the 25th best QB, ouch.

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To rock my soul

Obviously not an EXPERT. But Mahomes has a cannon but also accurate. Accuracy with velocity is QB jackpot. I don't remember much about Mahomes pocket presence so someone else can comment.

But Trubinsky had a lot of shitty throws accuracy wise, especially from the pocket. It's nice he can make plays scrambling and throwing on the run but that's shouldn't his main method in earning positive plays. Very few QBs make a long-term living that way.

I am not trying to compare mitch and mahomes. I completely get mahomes is way better. But mahomes had quite a bit around him.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Do you get the impression he wouldn't succeed if he was traded to a team like Jacksonville? I think he would. And I wouldn't say the same for Goff and Mitch. That's what I'm talking about when I say the offensive system is propping those two guys up and making their production better than their talent.

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I dont think we can say for sure after only one year and all the talent around him in KC.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Fair enough. We disagree strongly there

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Pro Bowl QB Mitch was a much different QB in week 1 than he was in week 17

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

sure, he got better. he went from krenzel to poor man cutler

and the progression will continue from Pro Bowl to All Pro

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

man this was maddening last season

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That's factually incorrect. We did the comparison before (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's injury and his numbers were better. Outside of interceptions and maybe a couple of other stats his numbers were better than Rodgers before the Rams game. It's documented in 1 of these threads.

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Not at the level he's playing at in Kansas City but I'm confident that he would be good. Would he have been as good if he went to Jacksonville out of college? No chance! Nagy and Reid (Especially Reid) are great with quarterbacks. They worked with Mahomes to tweak his flaws and now he's a Brady injury or retirement from being the best quarterback in the NFL.

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Watson is beating Mitch is pretty much every single statistical category.

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He's not better than Aaron Rodgers. You're trying to play both sides of this

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He literally does everything better. He wins the Super Bowl last year IF they win the toss in overtime. Remember when I was clinging to Ladainian Tomlinson being the best running back in the NFL and you were saying AP had passed him in his rookie season? This is similar to that.

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You can reasonably believe one of the two following statements:

Patrick Mahomes is better than Aaron Rodgers

Patrick Mahomes would not be very good if he never had Reid coach him.


Claiming both simultaneously is just nonsense.

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It's a new season so I will drop it. Prior to his injury that wasn't true. I think (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky will clearly pass him this season. Season Watson with the shakes in the playoffs wasn't encouraging.

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Mahomes had a ton of talent. Most early draft picks do. Mahomes was a flawed quarterback coming into the league. Reid and Nagy changed that. It's highly unlikely he would be arguably the best quarterback in the NFL if Jacksonville were responsible for his development.

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If he's better than Aaron Rodgers after one year starting then it's safe to assume he would be elite wherever he ended up. You can't argue both sides of that. Development is important but it's not everything. You can coach a guy up to play like Goff and Mitch did last year, not like Mahomes did.

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Goff and (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky don't have the God given ability that Mahomes has. Guys like Mahomes come around every 15 years or so. That being said we've both seen guys with incredible talent not be able to put it together. I don't think that we can make the assumption that Mahomes would have. There are reasons he was considered a 2nd round pick on some boards.

I expect Mahomes to regress a little but I'm not afraid to say he's no worst than the 2nd best quarterback in the NFL. I think Rodgers is falling apart too. I called this last year.

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You were wrong last year

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul