They were equals on a talent level until tmac's body broke down in Houston.

_________________
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Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Maybe so. maybe not. Still not apt to compare him to Iverson or Paul. Size difference alone makes it a terrible comp.


He never has impacted winning in a way that either of those two have however.

I do agree at his peak he was every bit the player Kobe was. Still remember when they went at each other during the All Star game.

You could tell that is was not just another All Star game for those 2. Both had something to prove.

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There's nothing to explain. There's no evidence behind your stance. There's nothing to suggest he was ever a top tier star. He had a more irrelevant career than Carmelo Anthony. The 13 points in 35 seconds or whatever thing was cool but outside of that he was nothing but a selfish underachieving gunner who never made the 2nd round of the playoffs, a pretty damning stat considering the era in which he played. I'm glad he's more remembered for his laughable "feels good to be in the 2nd round" quote than anything he actually did on the court.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

They were never equals on a talent level.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Kobe and Tmac equals on talent??

damn. This is turning into quite the thread

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Oh yes they were. Before the injuries McGrady was an elite player and the All NBA selections verifies it.

When Kobe didn't have superior talent around him he never made the 2nd round of the playoffs either.

His teams actually performed about the same as McGrady's when he didn't have Hall of Fame players around him.

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You comparing Kobe when his 2nd best teammate was Kwame Brown to TMac when his 2nd best player was Yao Ming?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The teams around them really has nothing to do with their individual talent comparison.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

When guys constantly use the success of the team (Which FF used and you failed to challenge) then yes it does. He brought up lack of playoff success as a means of comparing the 2. Ok when Kobe didn't have Hall of Famers around him his teams didn't do jack either.

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Lamar Odom and Ron Artest were in some of those mixes as i recall. TMAC in Houston had injuries. Either he or Yao. I actually wonder if they ever played in any playoff series together. If they did it couldn't have been more than 1.

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I am talking about vegans post that seemed clear to me to be talking on an individual level.

Kobe was the more talented basketball player.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

T-Mac had Yao Ming when he was at his best and didn't do jack shit with him. Kobe won titles when paired with other talent. That's because Kobe played defense and T-Mac couldn't guard half the posters on this board in his prime.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Offensively Kobe and T-Mac were close. Naturally I would give a slight edge to Kobe. Defensively there was no comparison. Kobe was an all nba defender and McGrady was slightly better than Harden.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You're showing your age. I can't agree or disagree because all I've seen is highlights and heard people at least a decade my senior speak highly of him.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Kobe, as a complete player, is on another level from T-Mac. One is top 50 all time, one is not.

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"At his best" Revisionist history. A board staple.

Yao was hurt every season that he and McGrady played with the Rockets.

On the same roster for 3 years together and then Yao retired from the league

_________________

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I will say one thing for Kobe: he had a somewhat decent argument for being top 3 on the Lakers during his first 3 titles with the most dominant big man ever.

I do love the citations of his defense when over half of his all-defensive selections make Derek Jeter's Gold Gloves look legitimate.

Yeah Kobe was a willing defender. He was never a great defender

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I think young and prime Kobe was a willing/great defender. You may have his last 5 or so years stuck in your head.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Yeah his last 2 or 3 were reputation.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

iverson is more comparable to carmello anthony as a player than isiah thomas or chris paul. those are true point guards, whereas iverson was always a SG, even when he was (stupidly) put in as a PG. he didn't have the qualities of a PG.

he literally carried that '00 team to the finals, but he had a good defending PG in eric snow. and dikembe was good under the post until he was mauled by shaq in the finals.

as far as height, i'd give it to iverson as more of an impact player. you couldn't take your eyes off him when he was on the court; paul can be an invisible man sometimes.

As WZ correctly pointed out below, AI was basically a SG.

AI had one run to the finals in a weak as hell East. That was when the giants of the East met their deaths: Chicago, Miami, NY, and Indiana. Into the void stepped a working man's basketball team with one star. They had to beat the broke as hell Milwaukee Bucks to get into the finals. That was one of the worst conferences of all time.

Other than that one fluke finals run, AI and Tmac have comparable team success.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Both were freakishly athletic wing players who were unstoppable. What was the difference on offense? Tmac may even had the slight edge athletically. Kobe was more polished/eventually developed better fundamentals. He was a student of the game. Tmac was casual in the very beginning - just raw talent in need of guidance. All that shit he did in Orlando he did without really knowing what he was doing. It was scary. At the same age Kobe bricked three pointers in LA during the playoffs because he thought he was better than prime Shaq.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

McGrady was more of a Small Forward than he was a shooting guard and this thread is about guys 6 feet and under.

Where does McGrady fit in?

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Shit up the thread time. Thanks for nothing. Let the record show that this is what this dude is trying to do.

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Oh yes they were. 30+ PPG scorers who couldn't be stopped.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

easy Paul AI has been retired for years ,,,plus AI SG Paul a PG

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Might be about time to bump this one as well.

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Loved reading back over some of the terrible opinions.

Iverson is still the answer for me.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."