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 Post subject: Re: WAR
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:22 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WAR has always been a flawed stat designed from the beginning to find the answers that were wanted. It starts off with a bunch of assumptions that fall apart so much people have to say "Well, it's only good for comparing players who play the same position" even though a positional adjustment is one of the whole points for this. It then throws in defense without adjusting for how little defense matters at some positions.

It is an easily digestible stat for internet arguments and sports radio because it puts a number value on a player so you can say "No, Player X is better because he has a WAR of 3.1 and Player Y has a WAR of 2.0!" without having to think about anything else in that equation.


dWAR accounts for the disparity in defensive positions though. That's why Keith Hernandez, widely considered the finest first baseman of his era, doesn't even have career dWAR of 1.0. The fact of the matter being that it's a lot easier to replace an elite fielder at first than it is to replace Ozzie Smith.

The biggest flaw with WAR is that when you attempt to aggregate all these pieces there's obviously going to be a lot of "noise".

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 Post subject: Re: WAR
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:58 am 
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Worthless stat

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 Post subject: Re: WAR
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:59 am 
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312player wrote:
Worthless stat



That being the case, who is the top WAR player this year that you think is having a shitty season?

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 Post subject: Re: WAR
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:09 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
Worthless stat



That being the case, who is the top WAR player this year that you think is having a shitty season?



i think there's more examples of players havin' good seasons who have a shitty WAR.

Take Harper for example. His WAR today (post-Grand Slam) is 2.3. Dude's got 26 HR and 90 RBI or some shit. OPS way over .900, including OBP of .374.
Yet he's only 2 or 3 more wins valuable than an average replacement? Before yesterday, that woulda been 1.3.

I aint high on Harper or anything but the WAR just seems low.

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Last edited by whistler on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WAR
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:12 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
whistler wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
If we're talking about changes to the game, one thing that I believe is a positive development over the past couple seasons is more first pitch swinging. The first pitch is often the best pitch of an at-bat and if you're taking it in the interest of merely "seeing pitches" you're helping create a boring game dominated by walks and strikeouts. It got to a point where pitchers could impudently throw a get-me-over fastball on the first pitch and start many counts 0-1. The increase in first pitch swings is clearly an adjustment to this.

Another thing I think is interesting is that all these teams have their detailed spray charts and proprietary data that informs their shifts, yet BABIP remains right at .300 no matter what the defense does. Tip of the cap to Voros McCracken.


whats BABIP mean?

I'm still stuck at BA, OBP, and SLG, only.


Batting Average for Balls In Play.

Even though "batting" is in the title, it's really a pitching stat. The theory is that a pitcher can only control three outcomes: strikeouts, walks, and home runs. All other balls that are put in play are considered good luck (out) or bad luck (hit) and not a function of a pitcher's skill. This is because someone discovered that all pitchers at the MLB level seem to have about the same BABIP. Assuming that's true, then all you would need to do to judge a pitcher is look at his strikeouts, walks, and home runs against. You can also look at a pitcher's recent BABIP to see if he's been lucky (his BABIP is lower than average), or unlucky (BABIP higher than average) because over time it should come back to the average.

Of course, many disagree with the notion that a pitcher has no effect on whether a ball in play is a hit or out. Some pitchers would seem to be good enough to induce weak contact, while others get pounded.

BABIP doesn't work as well as a metric for batters, in that there is more variability depending on the hitting style. For example, Ichiro had a very high BABIP because of the many infield hits he had.


Interesting. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: WAR
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:20 am 
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whistler wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
Worthless stat



That being the case, who is the top WAR player this year that you think is having a shitty season?



i think there's more examples of players havin' good seasons who have a shitty WAR.

Take Harper for example. His WAR today (post-Grand Slam) is 2.3. Dude's got 26 HR and 90 RBI or some shit. OPS way over .900, including OBP of .374.
Yet he's only 2 or 3 more wins valuable than an average replacement? Before yesterday, that woulda been 1.3.

I aint high on Harper or anything but the WAR just seems low.



He's also going to strike out around 220 times. When the season is over he's likely to have a WAR of around 4 for the year which will be a good description of the kind of year he is having.

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 Post subject: Re: WAR
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


He's also going to strike out around 220 times. When the season is over he's likely to have a WAR of around 4 for the year which will be a good description of the kind of year he is having.



On pace for 190. Most guys these days do that. I mean if youre gonna hit 35 HR and drive in 115, and you're only worth 4 wins above a AAA replacement, this is either a worthless stat, or this is the worst, dumbest contract in sports history from a front office perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: WAR
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:41 am 
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it's theoretical wins, like Bitcoin

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 Post subject: Re: WAR
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:03 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
it's theoretical wins, like Bitcoin


Why do you feel that Bitcoin is more "theoretical" than the U.S. Dollar or the Euro of the Yuan?

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