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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Who are the better all around players?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:25 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
But Jordan was significantly better than you think.



I don't believe that to be the case.

Here's why I don't argue about Jordan and/or "the GOAT". The Chicagoan/Bulls fan will beat me over the head with Jordan's numbers which are admittedly great and enough to put him ahead of any but others who are the most elite players in history. But when one cites the numbers of another ultra-elite player that may give him an edge over Jordan even just in a particular aspect of the game, the Chicagoan/Bulls fan immediately leaps to "yeah, but" and insisting Jordan was better at that too. It's absurd.

And for the record, I haven't said one negative thing about Jordan in this thread other than that he's a shitburger for holding grudges from high school even after being widely acclaimed as the GOAT and having enough money for his great great great great grandchildren to blow on hookers and cocaine.

This is false. Even the biggest Jordan fans know there have been better all around players. However when you go down the rabbit hole of "yeah, but rebounds!" You suddenly have Westbrook and others as better than him and of course that criteria becomes absurd.



This is not true. I say this about LBJ all the time (that he is more talented than MJ) and then all of a sudden I get 15 posts in succession excommunicating me from the board, Chicago, sports, and humanity

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:07 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I love when JORR gets in these discussions about the NBA :lol:

It shows even the greatest posters have their own idiotic moments


This is the same idiot who had no idea Dominick Hasek was widely considered the greatest goalie of all time and instead thought he wasn't even one of the top 10 goalies of all time. Let's slow down a bit on the greatest poster thing. He's a sports idiot just like several other people who post here.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:22 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
But Jordan was significantly better than you think.



I don't believe that to be the case.

Here's why I don't argue about Jordan and/or "the GOAT". The Chicagoan/Bulls fan will beat me over the head with Jordan's numbers which are admittedly great and enough to put him ahead of any but others who are the most elite players in history. But when one cites the numbers of another ultra-elite player that may give him an edge over Jordan even just in a particular aspect of the game, the Chicagoan/Bulls fan immediately leaps to "yeah, but" and insisting Jordan was better at that too. It's absurd.

And for the record, I haven't said one negative thing about Jordan in this thread other than that he's a shitburger for holding grudges from high school even after being widely acclaimed as the GOAT and having enough money for his great great great great grandchildren to blow on hookers and cocaine.


Nah you've dissed him some but thats ok. Being the greatest player ever doesn't mean he is the best at every aspect of the game. He isn't that. No one is that has ever played the game.


With this being the case some of your argument doesn't make much sense. For instance you equate scoring with merely being able to shoot 3 pointers which is dumb. The best scorers in NBA history are compromised of guys that really weren't renowned for 3 point shooting. Wilt Chamberlain couldn't shoot outside of 5 feet and neither could Kareem or Shaq.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:26 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Who are the better all around players?


Its debatable if anyone was better all around all time. Of the guys that can make the argument however the 4 that come immediately to mind that i have seen that could give him a run would be Duncan, Akeem, Kobe, and Lebron.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:45 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
But Jordan was significantly better than you think.



I don't believe that to be the case.

Here's why I don't argue about Jordan and/or "the GOAT". The Chicagoan/Bulls fan will beat me over the head with Jordan's numbers which are admittedly great and enough to put him ahead of any but others who are the most elite players in history. But when one cites the numbers of another ultra-elite player that may give him an edge over Jordan even just in a particular aspect of the game, the Chicagoan/Bulls fan immediately leaps to "yeah, but" and insisting Jordan was better at that too. It's absurd.

And for the record, I haven't said one negative thing about Jordan in this thread other than that he's a shitburger for holding grudges from high school even after being widely acclaimed as the GOAT and having enough money for his great great great great grandchildren to blow on hookers and cocaine.

This is false. Even the biggest Jordan fans know there have been better all around players. However when you go down the rabbit hole of "yeah, but rebounds!" You suddenly have Westbrook and others as better than him and of course that criteria becomes absurd.



This is not true. I say this about LBJ all the time (that he is more talented than MJ) and then all of a sudden I get 15 posts in succession excommunicating me from the board, Chicago, sports, and humanity

You are the most extreme LBJ defender on here though.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:50 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Who are the better all around players?

Not counting post players just off the top of my head Magic, Kidd, Westbrook, Durant, Robertson.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:58 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:12 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Who are the better all around players?

Not counting post players just off the top of my head Magic, Kidd, Westbrook, Durant, Robertson.


Image

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:14 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Who are the better all around players?

Not counting post players just off the top of my head Magic, Kidd, Westbrook, Durant, Robertson.


How many first team All-D appearances for that group?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:15 pm 
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shakes wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I love when JORR gets in these discussions about the NBA :lol:

It shows even the greatest posters have their own idiotic moments


This is the same idiot who had no idea Dominick Hasek was widely considered the greatest goalie of all time and instead thought he wasn't even one of the top 10 goalies of all time. Let's slow down a bit on the greatest poster thing. He's a sports idiot just like several other people who post here.


:lol: Fuck Hasek. He was no Ken Dryden. Anyway, hockey isn't really a sport.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:18 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
For instance you equate scoring with merely being able to shoot 3 pointers.


Uh, no I don't.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:26 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
For instance you equate scoring with merely being able to shoot 3 pointers.


Uh, no I don't.


There is very little which suggests that Steph Curry is more prolific at Scoring than Michael Jordan. Scoring efficiency only comes in if career scoring avg. is similar. It isn't thus its not important.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:45 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
For instance you equate scoring with merely being able to shoot 3 pointers.


Uh, no I don't.


There is very little which suggests that Steph Curry is more prolific at Scoring than Michael Jordan. Scoring efficiency only comes in if career scoring avg. is similar. It isn't thus its not important.



Over the last 5 season Curry is averaging about 27 a game on an effective rate of over 60%. It's a tough argument to say 5 more points at a shooting rate over 100 points lower is "better".

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:47 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
But Jordan was significantly better than you think.



I don't believe that to be the case.

Here's why I don't argue about Jordan and/or "the GOAT". The Chicagoan/Bulls fan will beat me over the head with Jordan's numbers which are admittedly great and enough to put him ahead of any but others who are the most elite players in history. But when one cites the numbers of another ultra-elite player that may give him an edge over Jordan even just in a particular aspect of the game, the Chicagoan/Bulls fan immediately leaps to "yeah, but" and insisting Jordan was better at that too. It's absurd.

That’s patently false and one only need read my responses to you in this thread to verify it as false.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:48 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
But Jordan was significantly better than you think.



I don't believe that to be the case.

Here's why I don't argue about Jordan and/or "the GOAT". The Chicagoan/Bulls fan will beat me over the head with Jordan's numbers which are admittedly great and enough to put him ahead of any but others who are the most elite players in history. But when one cites the numbers of another ultra-elite player that may give him an edge over Jordan even just in a particular aspect of the game, the Chicagoan/Bulls fan immediately leaps to "yeah, but" and insisting Jordan was better at that too. It's absurd.

And for the record, I haven't said one negative thing about Jordan in this thread other than that he's a shitburger for holding grudges from high school even after being widely acclaimed as the GOAT and having enough money for his great great great great grandchildren to blow on hookers and cocaine.

This is false. Even the biggest Jordan fans know there have been better all around players. However when you go down the rabbit hole of "yeah, but rebounds!" You suddenly have Westbrook and others as better than him and of course that criteria becomes absurd.



This is not true. I say this about LBJ all the time (that he is more talented than MJ) and then all of a sudden I get 15 posts in succession excommunicating me from the board, Chicago, sports, and humanity

That’s because that’s a retarded opinion to hold.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:52 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
For instance you equate scoring with merely being able to shoot 3 pointers.


Uh, no I don't.


There is very little which suggests that Steph Curry is more prolific at Scoring than Michael Jordan. Scoring efficiency only comes in if career scoring avg. is similar. It isn't thus its not important.



Over the last 5 season Curry is averaging about 27 a game on an effective rate of over 60%. It's a tough argument to say 5 more points at a shooting rate over 100 points lower is "better".


In Jordan's top five Seasons he avg 33-34 points per game. Again no matter how you slice it Jordan was a more prolific scorer. And he did it against defenses designed to stop him. Curry has never really had to play against defenses like that. Particularly in his last 3 seasons. He wasn't even the best scorer on his own team. Durant was.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:52 pm 
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The argument for Jordan as GOAT is simple and doesn’t need to involve numbers or rings. He’s the only player in the history of the league to be the undisputed best offensive player while being first team all defense, and he did it for a decade.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:52 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
But Jordan was significantly better than you think.



I don't believe that to be the case.

Here's why I don't argue about Jordan and/or "the GOAT". The Chicagoan/Bulls fan will beat me over the head with Jordan's numbers which are admittedly great and enough to put him ahead of any but others who are the most elite players in history. But when one cites the numbers of another ultra-elite player that may give him an edge over Jordan even just in a particular aspect of the game, the Chicagoan/Bulls fan immediately leaps to "yeah, but" and insisting Jordan was better at that too. It's absurd.

That’s patently false and one only need read my responses to you in this thread to verify it as false.



I don't think you're the prototype of the guy I'm talking about. LTG either.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:54 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
The argument for Jordan as GOAT is simple and doesn’t need to involve numbers or rings. He’s the only player in the history of the league to be the undisputed best offensive player while being first team all defense, and he did it for a decade.


Undisputed? Maybe you are the prototype guy. You can't just state an opinion as argument and have it taken seriously.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:55 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
For instance you equate scoring with merely being able to shoot 3 pointers.


Uh, no I don't.


There is very little which suggests that Steph Curry is more prolific at Scoring than Michael Jordan. Scoring efficiency only comes in if career scoring avg. is similar. It isn't thus its not important.



Over the last 5 season Curry is averaging about 27 a game on an effective rate of over 60%. It's a tough argument to say 5 more points at a shooting rate over 100 points lower is "better".


In Jordan's top five Seasons he avg 33-34 points per game. Again no matter how you slice it Jordan was a more prolific scorer. And he did it against defenses designed to stop him. Curry has never really had to play against defenses like that. Particularly in his last 3 seasons. He wasn't even the best scorer on his own team. Durant was.


The numbers speak for themselves. Yeah, Jordan scored a little more at a far less efficient rate. Those are facts.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:58 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
For instance you equate scoring with merely being able to shoot 3 pointers.


Uh, no I don't.


There is very little which suggests that Steph Curry is more prolific at Scoring than Michael Jordan. Scoring efficiency only comes in if career scoring avg. is similar. It isn't thus its not important.



Over the last 5 season Curry is averaging about 27 a game on an effective rate of over 60%. It's a tough argument to say 5 more points at a shooting rate over 100 points lower is "better".


In Jordan's top five Seasons he avg 33-34 points per game. Again no matter how you slice it Jordan was a more prolific scorer. And he did it against defenses designed to stop him. Curry has never really had to play against defenses like that. Particularly in his last 3 seasons. He wasn't even the best scorer on his own team. Durant was.


The numbers speak for themselves. Yeah, Jordan scored a little more at a far less efficient rate. Those are facts.


For his career its 7 points more and during his best seasons its 7 points more. Those are the numbers. He leaves Curry in the dust and the better argument would be Durant. He is and always has been a better scorer than Curry.


When G.S. needed a bucket they went to Durant the past 3 seasons. Tells you all you need to know.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:59 pm 
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You're seriously underestimating the value of efficient scoring.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:00 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
The argument for Jordan as GOAT is simple and doesn’t need to involve numbers or rings. He’s the only player in the history of the league to be the undisputed best offensive player while being first team all defense, and he did it for a decade.


Undisputed? Maybe you are the prototype guy. You can't just state an opinion as argument and have it taken seriously.

Yes undisputed. That word applies here.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:03 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You're seriously underestimating the value of efficient scoring.


I have understanding with how numbers can be inflated. Jordan's numbers were impacted by playing on a lot of teams where he was the only scoring option. Still shot 50% for his career.

I guarantee you that Curry won't hit 60% this year. When he doesn't then you will be left stating that its because he didn't play with elite players. Well that was Michael Jordans world for the first 6 years of his career.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:05 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You're seriously underestimating the value of efficient scoring.


I have understanding with how numbers can be inflated. Jordan's numbers were impacted by playing on a lot of teams where he was the only scoring option. Still shot 50% for his career.

I guarantee you that Curry won't hit 60% this year. When he doesn't then you will be left stating that its because he didn't play with elite players. Well that was Michael Jordans world for the first 6 years of his career.

Well that, and Jordan was getting clotheslined on the way to the rim. Tends to affect the ol’ FG%

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:11 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You're seriously underestimating the value of efficient scoring.


I have understanding with how numbers can be inflated. Jordan's numbers were impacted by playing on a lot of teams where he was the only scoring option. Still shot 50% for his career.

I guarantee you that Curry won't hit 60% this year. When he doesn't then you will be left stating that its because he didn't play with elite players. Well that was Michael Jordans world for the first 6 years of his career.

Well that, and Jordan was getting clotheslined on the way to the rim. Tends to affect the ol’ FG%



It's not a problem if you can hit from halfcourt.

But you're doing exactly what I'm talking about- diminishing another guy to support what you already "know": Jordan is the GOAT and it is undisputed.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:14 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Jordan's numbers were impacted by playing on a lot of teams where he was the only scoring option.


True. The Bulls were nowhere near as good as Magic's Lakers or Bird's Celtics or the recent Warriors which all had multiple scoring options.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:15 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You're seriously underestimating the value of efficient scoring.


I have understanding with how numbers can be inflated. Jordan's numbers were impacted by playing on a lot of teams where he was the only scoring option. Still shot 50% for his career.

I guarantee you that Curry won't hit 60% this year. When he doesn't then you will be left stating that its because he didn't play with elite players. Well that was Michael Jordans world for the first 6 years of his career.

Well that, and Jordan was getting clotheslined on the way to the rim. Tends to affect the ol’ FG%



It's not a problem if you can hit from halfcourt.

But you're doing exactly what I'm talking about- diminishing another guy to support what you already "know": Jordan is the GOAT and it is undisputed.

I’m doing no such thing. It’s a fact that Jordan played under much different and much tougher defensive rules. Are you going to call that fact an opinion too? :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:16 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You're seriously underestimating the value of efficient scoring.


I have understanding with how numbers can be inflated. Jordan's numbers were impacted by playing on a lot of teams where he was the only scoring option. Still shot 50% for his career.

I guarantee you that Curry won't hit 60% this year. When he doesn't then you will be left stating that its because he didn't play with elite players. Well that was Michael Jordans world for the first 6 years of his career.

Well that, and Jordan was getting clotheslined on the way to the rim. Tends to affect the ol’ FG%



It's not a problem if you can hit from halfcourt.

But you're doing exactly what I'm talking about- diminishing another guy to support what you already "know": Jordan is the GOAT and it is undisputed.



There is a 7% difference in the Efg % of Jordan and Curry. Mind you this is the number even as you factor in the Wizard years and the mediocre roster years of the Bulls.

We have yet to see the worst of Curry. Regular season speaking. He has shot poorly in the playoffs quite a bit.

That 58% clip he is at now is going to come down as he exits his prime years. He will probably finish at about 53%-54% once the smoke clears. Then whatever argument you might have is dead.

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Last edited by long time guy on Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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