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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:46 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
I would absolutely rather have Mitch than Gabagool. Its not even close if you factor in the contract situation.

The GM's main job is really just to manage the cap and keep things tidy. There is very little skill involved with the draft, its really a crapshoot. Sometimes you can find a true diamond in the rough but mostly its making what are really just informed gambles. It is impossible to really tell if a player will put in the work necessary to be a pro player or whether they will be handle the speed of the pro game. There are ways to guess, but there are no ways to know.

Pace does a good job drafting when you accept that reality. If you refuse to accept that reality you will never be satisfied.


The Niners can release Jimmy G right now, not a huge cap hit. There's an out in the contract. He was the weak link, he'll be the weak link next year.. I'd cut him. He's better than Mitch but he's a game manager, easily replaceable.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:57 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
The Bears were old and bad when Pace arrived and now their roster is you and dramatically improved.

He passed on both QB's in the Superbowl last night.


Garrapolo would be nothing on the Bears.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:08 am 
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312player wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
I would absolutely rather have Mitch than Gabagool. Its not even close if you factor in the contract situation.

The GM's main job is really just to manage the cap and keep things tidy. There is very little skill involved with the draft, its really a crapshoot. Sometimes you can find a true diamond in the rough but mostly its making what are really just informed gambles. It is impossible to really tell if a player will put in the work necessary to be a pro player or whether they will be handle the speed of the pro game. There are ways to guess, but there are no ways to know.

Pace does a good job drafting when you accept that reality. If you refuse to accept that reality you will never be satisfied.


The Niners can release Jimmy G right now, not a huge cap hit. There's an out in the contract. He was the weak link, he'll be the weak link next year.. I'd cut him. He's better than Mitch but he's a game manager, easily replaceable.


I wouldn't say he's better than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. He had a great running game, great offensive line and an elite TE. His pass completions still traveled the shortest distance of any QB in the NFL. He looked like he was afraid of the moment.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:12 am 
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JeffGeorgeWorshipPodcast wrote:
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They would have ruined Mahomes anyway.


This

And anyone who denies it is insane, or doesn't actually watch football.


I think you're selling Mahomes short

His development would have been stunted, but no way in hell would Mahomes have let a few bad coaches ruin all the talent he has.

It's not just his arm. It's so many intangibles too. He just has "IT." And no amount of bad coaching was gonna hold that down forever.

But he probably wouldn't have truly excelled until Chicago gave up on him, lol


Mahomes was the QB in that draft that needed the most coaching. He needed the mentor. I watched enough of him at Texas Tech to see that.

Unless an actual offensive coach was here (fuck Dowell Loggains), that doesn't happen, and the league gives up on him and sees him as a career backup...or maybe a gadget player (Taysum Hill in New Orleans).

I also think that if Mitch had decent mentoring, he would be fine.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:33 am 
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I, too, am waiting for the conclusion of the 2020 season.

I've come around to accept that some of Antarctica' s logic is true. Pace has made some good draft picks. He did improve a garbage roster.

BUT....his highlight as a 12-4 season with a first playoff game exit based on playing a 3rd place favorable schedule. He missed horribly on QB and gave away a lot of get him.

I think he missed on the Head Coach, as well. after 2020 concludes he'll be looking at one year left on his contract. Another 8-8 season and playoff miss and he has to be let go. It's just not good enough.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:48 am 
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BigW72 wrote:
I, too, am waiting for the conclusion of the 2020 season.

I've come around to accept that some of Antarctica' s logic is true. Pace has made some good draft picks. He did improve a garbage roster.

BUT....his highlight as a 12-4 season with a first playoff game exit based on playing a 3rd place favorable schedule. He missed horribly on QB and gave away a lot of get him.

I think he missed on the Head Coach, as well. after 2020 concludes he'll be looking at one year left on his contract. Another 8-8 season and playoff miss and he has to be let go. It's just not good enough.


You would hope. Then you have teams like the Houston Texans who should have fired Bill OBrien immediately after this season, instead they hire him as new GM.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:23 am 
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312player wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
I would absolutely rather have Mitch than Gabagool. Its not even close if you factor in the contract situation.

The GM's main job is really just to manage the cap and keep things tidy. There is very little skill involved with the draft, its really a crapshoot. Sometimes you can find a true diamond in the rough but mostly its making what are really just informed gambles. It is impossible to really tell if a player will put in the work necessary to be a pro player or whether they will be handle the speed of the pro game. There are ways to guess, but there are no ways to know.

Pace does a good job drafting when you accept that reality. If you refuse to accept that reality you will never be satisfied.


The Niners can release Jimmy G right now, not a huge cap hit. There's an out in the contract. He was the weak link, he'll be the weak link next year.. I'd cut him. He's better than Mitch but he's a game manager, easily replaceable.


I don't think that he is better than Mitch. People underestimate Mitch's mobility. Garapolo is immobile. That was one of the keys of the game. The Chiefs knew where he was all of the time and got to him when it mattered. He also could not throw well downfield. He's fine when he can use play action off of the running game but when the Chiefs stopped their running game he could not dink and dunk with play action.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:46 am 
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Darkside wrote:
No more proof needed.


In two years he will be fired.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:59 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
People want to fire him for literally one wrong move and hiring a middling coach.

And there was no way in 2016 of knowing this would shake out the way it did. There is not some eight ball teams can look into. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky showed no less at UNC than Mahomes at TT. Part of the job is projectability but Mahomes question marks coming out of school were plenty. Still it was not the right pick, nobody will deny it. But I'm not going to crucify him over it until he doubles down it, like the way SF doubled down on Gabagool (who is no better than Mitch) with that massive extension that will cause their precipitous fall from grace.

As for hiring Nagy. You get one interview with the guy and have to just go on gut instinct the rest of the way. There was no way of knowing that Nagy would retreat into his Be You. playsheet and run the same plays for thirty-three straight games.

Pace has done a very good job. You would be very lucky to replace him with somebody as good as him at drafting and free agency. It would be extraordinary to find someone better.

I have seen enough to grant him the position in perpetuity, even through some lean years, as long as he doesn't grow despotic or incompetent.

The issue isn't that he chose wrongly between (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Watson or Mahomes. What you say is accurate about the draft evaluations of them.

The issue is he was so scared of having to draft either Watson or Mahomes that he traded up one spot on the off chance that someone came in and "took" (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky from under him. That's why his judgement was so far off. There isn't a case to be made that you give up significant draft capital because you may lose out on your favorite of three quarterbacks that are all rated similarly.

Think about the mindset he had to have on draft day. He not only thought (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was the best option but he was so far ahead of him that he wouldn't be able to handle it if he lost out on him for Watson or Mahomes.

Add in the fact that he seemingly did very little scouting of the other quarterbacks, or even (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky, and it does become something that will haunt him his whole career.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:01 pm 
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Pace did scout the cars the QBs drove. How many GMs can say they went that deep?!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:15 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The issue isn't that he chose wrongly between (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Watson or Mahomes. What you say is accurate about the draft evaluations of them.

The issue is he was so scared of having to draft either Watson or Mahomes that he traded up one spot on the off chance that someone came in and "took" (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky from under him. That's why his judgement was so far off. There isn't a case to be made that you give up significant draft capital because you may lose out on your favorite of three quarterbacks that are all rated similarly.

Think about the mindset he had to have on draft day. He not only thought (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was the best option but he was so far ahead of him that he wouldn't be able to handle it if he lost out on him for Watson or Mahomes.

Add in the fact that he seemingly did very little scouting of the other quarterbacks, or even (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky, and it does become something that will haunt him his whole career.

You only fire Pace if you think you can hire someone who will do a better job going forward. Do you think it is even remotely likely they find someone better?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:20 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
I, too, am waiting for the conclusion of the 2020 season.

I've come around to accept that some of Antarctica' s logic is true. Pace has made some good draft picks. He did improve a garbage roster.

BUT....his highlight as a 12-4 season with a first playoff game exit based on playing a 3rd place favorable schedule. He missed horribly on QB and gave away a lot of get him.

I think he missed on the Head Coach, as well. after 2020 concludes he'll be looking at one year left on his contract. Another 8-8 season and playoff miss and he has to be let go. It's just not good enough.

The coach is going to nosedive them to six wins (or maybe even fewer) next year. They have a really good roster but coaching is just too important in the NFL for even the best rosters to overcome the likes of Nagy.

Next year they press the reset button on the coach and quarterback again. I see no reason to not let Pace get an opportunity to learn from his mistakes and get another crack at it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:25 pm 
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Missing on (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky isn't even the worst part.

It's the fact that he didn't even MEET with Watson.

While he courted (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky with steak dinners, he just ignored Watson and I think he took Mahomes to a McDonalds drive thru.

It's one thing to screw up your job.

It's another to not even DO IT.

Drafting a QB in the first round is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION a GM will ever make. If you aren't doing ng your due diligence, you shouldn't be entrusted with a franchises fortunes.

He talked a bunch of b.s when he got hired that "ideally he'd like to draft a QB EVERY YEAR."

He's done it ONCE in 5 seasons. Where was his due diligence on Dak? On Minshew? And all the other mid to late round gems over the last 5 years that Pace passed on?

He's a GARBAGE and DUMB and I want him GONE.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:28 pm 
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Dak and Minshew are no better than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and they took Watson off their board because he has had multiple ACL surgeries.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:49 pm 
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yes, it is possible they are worse next year. The Defensive roster is good. The offense....no, it's not good.

It will be a very tough sell for Pace to explain his hand selected coach was a failure and that he deserves to be extended. It would be very Bears-like for that to happen. The McCaskey's probably love Pace.

Pace isn't Emery level bad at GM, but he's not good either. This will be a power struggle. I just can't see the Pace surviving the heat of another bad season. This team is all his....the good and the bad.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:19 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
I, too, am waiting for the conclusion of the 2020 season.

I've come around to accept that some of Antarctica' s logic is true. Pace has made some good draft picks. He did improve a garbage roster.

BUT....his highlight as a 12-4 season with a first playoff game exit based on playing a 3rd place favorable schedule. He missed horribly on QB and gave away a lot of get him.

I think he missed on the Head Coach, as well. after 2020 concludes he'll be looking at one year left on his contract. Another 8-8 season and playoff miss and he has to be let go. It's just not good enough.

The coach is going to nosedive them to six wins (or maybe even fewer) next year. They have a really good roster but coaching is just too important in the NFL for even the best rosters to overcome the likes of Nagy.

Next year they press the reset button on the coach and quarterback again. I see no reason to not let Pace get an opportunity to learn from his mistakes and get another crack at it.


This will be true if they do not fix the offensive line and find a good tight end. I disagree that they have a really good roster. They have a bad offensive roster right now with below average performers at five positions, Two tackles, a guard, a tight end, and a running back. That, to me, is the reality of this team.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:24 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
yes, it is possible they are worse next year. The Defensive roster is good. The offense....no, it's not good.

It will be a very tough sell for Pace to explain his hand selected coach was a failure and that he deserves to be extended. It would be very Bears-like for that to happen. The McCaskey's probably love Pace.

Pace isn't Emery level bad at GM, but he's not good either. This will be a power struggle. I just can't see the Pace surviving the heat of another bad season. This team is all his....the good and the bad.


I was all for firing Pace after this season but typical Bears once again and they refused to see reality. THis is Pace's last chance hopefully. This team should be fixable. It is all about making the right moves on the offense. Right now, I doubt that they will do it because they'd have to admit that they fucked things up last season. Last season should not have happened. They wasted a fine defense. That defense it still there and may be better next season but not without the other side of the ball being much better.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:35 pm 
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I have no idea why he brought Massie back.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:52 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
I have no idea why he brought Massie back.


Yep. And signing Leno to his contract was also a mistake. I got really sick of watching their offensive line this year. The only thing that the big tub of goo Leno can do is pick off his fallen QB and RB off of the ground when they get knocked to the ground.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:33 pm 
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They save $3m against the cap cutting Leno, he's as good as gone.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:36 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The issue isn't that he chose wrongly between (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky and Watson or Mahomes. What you say is accurate about the draft evaluations of them.

The issue is he was so scared of having to draft either Watson or Mahomes that he traded up one spot on the off chance that someone came in and "took" (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky from under him. That's why his judgement was so far off. There isn't a case to be made that you give up significant draft capital because you may lose out on your favorite of three quarterbacks that are all rated similarly.

Think about the mindset he had to have on draft day. He not only thought (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was the best option but he was so far ahead of him that he wouldn't be able to handle it if he lost out on him for Watson or Mahomes.

Add in the fact that he seemingly did very little scouting of the other quarterbacks, or even (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky, and it does become something that will haunt him his whole career.

You only fire Pace if you think you can hire someone who will do a better job going forward. Do you think it is even remotely likely they find someone better?

If the Bears aren't good next year then yes I do.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:40 pm 
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If Ted Phillips is still running things, then this is just an exercise in futility. Nothing will matter until he is gone in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:48 pm 
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Nas wrote:
312player wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
I would absolutely rather have Mitch than Gabagool. Its not even close if you factor in the contract situation.

The GM's main job is really just to manage the cap and keep things tidy. There is very little skill involved with the draft, its really a crapshoot. Sometimes you can find a true diamond in the rough but mostly its making what are really just informed gambles. It is impossible to really tell if a player will put in the work necessary to be a pro player or whether they will be handle the speed of the pro game. There are ways to guess, but there are no ways to know.

Pace does a good job drafting when you accept that reality. If you refuse to accept that reality you will never be satisfied.


The Niners can release Jimmy G right now, not a huge cap hit. There's an out in the contract. He was the weak link, he'll be the weak link next year.. I'd cut him. He's better than Mitch but he's a game manager, easily replaceable.


I wouldn't say he's better than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. He had a great running game, great offensive line and an elite TE. His pass completions still traveled the shortest distance of any QB in the NFL. He looked like he was afraid of the moment.


Do you think the Niners win if Andy Dolton is the QB yesterday?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:10 pm 
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312player wrote:
Nas wrote:
312player wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
I would absolutely rather have Mitch than Gabagool. Its not even close if you factor in the contract situation.

The GM's main job is really just to manage the cap and keep things tidy. There is very little skill involved with the draft, its really a crapshoot. Sometimes you can find a true diamond in the rough but mostly its making what are really just informed gambles. It is impossible to really tell if a player will put in the work necessary to be a pro player or whether they will be handle the speed of the pro game. There are ways to guess, but there are no ways to know.

Pace does a good job drafting when you accept that reality. If you refuse to accept that reality you will never be satisfied.


The Niners can release Jimmy G right now, not a huge cap hit. There's an out in the contract. He was the weak link, he'll be the weak link next year.. I'd cut him. He's better than Mitch but he's a game manager, easily replaceable.


I wouldn't say he's better than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. He had a great running game, great offensive line and an elite TE. His pass completions still traveled the shortest distance of any QB in the NFL. He looked like he was afraid of the moment.


Do you think the Niners win if Andy Dolton is the QB yesterday?


Maybe. Not because I think Dalton is good but primarily because I think Jimmy G is really green and extremely overrated.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:22 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
If Ted Phillips is still running things, then this is just an exercise in futility. Nothing will matter until he is gone in my opinion.

Which is why I go back to contract length remaining. Pace will have 1 year left after 2020. Nagy will have 2 years left.
Fire the GM after 2020. New GM comes in and will "need a year to evaluate" Nagy. After 2021, the new GM fires Nagy with only 1 year left. This is the most fiscally responsible approach.

I'm sorry...Pace isn't as bad as some other GM's but he's fired himself already.

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