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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:26 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mark Buehrle rarely had numbers that would jump off of a stat sheet, but he had stretches in his career where he definitely had ace stuff going.


To me, Mark Buehrle was a pitcher who made the absolute best out of mediocre stuff. He was pretty much the poor man's Tom Glavine. 8) 8)

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:31 pm 
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Cashman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Mark Buehrle rarely had numbers that would jump off of a stat sheet, but he had stretches in his career where he definitely had ace stuff going.


I definitely thought Buehrle was an ace without eye popping numbers. I'm happy if Giolito is Buehrle.



I think Sale was an ace, not so much Burhrle, and I REALLY like me some Mark Buehrle. Outside Sale, I think the closest we have seen an ace, might be the middleish of 05-06 Jose Contreras. That dude was DOMINANT for like a year.


You're right about Contreras. I remember watching him warm up once with that 12"softball in the pen in order to stretch his fingers for his splitter. The guy had very large hands and he jammed that softball deep between his fingers and the spin on that ball was amazing. Its too bad that he didn't get to the bigs at an earlier age because he really was something to watch pitch. 8) 8) 8)

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:37 pm 
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You know what they say about big hands?

Big gloves.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:50 pm 
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McCann a "no show" at White Sox convention. Hmmm

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:51 pm 
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Keuchel sighting?


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:42 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:

Lets put it this way. Jimenez and Robert have a better future than any pair of Cubs hitters anywhere in their major league or minor league system. that goes without saying. Both will be many time all stars and conceivable MVP candidates.


Lets start with a winning record before we put both in Cooperstown.


I'd start with just proving to not be MLB busts


One already has performed better at the MLB level in Year 1 than the guy you want to give $25M a year to because he got hot in the 2nd half of the season in a contract year.


Castellanos isn't getting 25 million per and I never advocated for paying him that. I imagine he will end up reasonable in terms of money and years for a 28 year old guy. Arguing controlled versus free agent values is like apples and oranges.


Told you he wasn't getting 25 per.

I think the contract he got is just as I described it, reasonable for a 28 year old.

I'd rather have Castellanos and Walker at 16 million than Mazzara and Encarnacion at 17.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:08 pm 
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I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:32 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:

Lets put it this way. Jimenez and Robert have a better future than any pair of Cubs hitters anywhere in their major league or minor league system. that goes without saying. Both will be many time all stars and conceivable MVP candidates.


Lets start with a winning record before we put both in Cooperstown.


I'd start with just proving to not be MLB busts


One already has performed better at the MLB level in Year 1 than the guy you want to give $25M a year to because he got hot in the 2nd half of the season in a contract year.


Castellanos isn't getting 25 million per and I never advocated for paying him that. I imagine he will end up reasonable in terms of money and years for a 28 year old guy. Arguing controlled versus free agent values is like apples and oranges.


Told you he wasn't getting 25 per.

I think the contract he got is just as I described it, reasonable for a 28 year old.

I'd rather have Castellanos and Walker at 16 million than Mazzara and Encarnacion at 17.


I think you'll change your mind. Castellanos is fools gold. IF Encarnacion can't hit anymore it was a 1 year gamble. Castellanos was going to be brutal in the outfield and not hit enough to justify the money. I think Mazara will have a better season.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:33 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:45 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Sign Puig for 2 years $20 million with an option for a 3rd.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:54 pm 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.



I'd say he is.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:39 pm 
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312player wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.



I'd say he is.


Nope. Mazara is four year younger and has basically the same stats. Mazara can improve. Castillanos, not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:08 pm 
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We'll see, Texas is easily the best hitters park outside Coors.. Castellanos been in Detroit's cavernous stadium. He's gonna tear the cover off the ball in a full year in Cincy.. I'd bet he crushes Mazara output.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:26 pm 
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312player wrote:
We'll see, Texas is easily the best hitters park outside Coors.. Castellanos been in Detroit's cavernous stadium. He's gonna tear the cover off the ball in a full year in Cincy.. I'd bet he crushes Mazara output.


Maybe. Maybe not. I still think that a guy who has basically the same stats as a guy four year older has got more potential productivity than the older guy. The Sox also saved some money in the process. Mazara is only 24 years old and has good major league experience already. He conceivably can profit from the very able hitters surrounding him on this team both on the field and off of the field.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:29 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
312player wrote:
We'll see, Texas is easily the best hitters park outside Coors.. Castellanos been in Detroit's cavernous stadium. He's gonna tear the cover off the ball in a full year in Cincy.. I'd bet he crushes Mazara output.


Maybe. Maybe not. I still think that a guy who has basically the same stats as a guy four year older has got more potential productivity than the older guy. The Sox also saved some money in the process. Mazara is only 24 years old and has good major league experience already. He conceivably can profit from the very able hitters surrounding him on this team both on the field and off of the field.


Mazara also isn't an absolute liability in RF. Robert would be dead in a year trying to cover for Castellanos and Jimenez.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:30 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.


Mazara isn't even a full time player. Right now, he is on the very fringes of being an MLB starter. He isn't even Avi Garcia.

Castellanos has been sitting at +.800 OPS for four years. Now he enters his baseball prime and gets to play outside of Detroit (the guy has been a doubles machine in a huge park so you can expect his HR totals to increase)

Money isn't an issue. Sox are STILL below league average.

Yes, Castellanos is 10M better and it wouldn't have cost a legit MLB prospect

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:38 am 
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Nas wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
312player wrote:
We'll see, Texas is easily the best hitters park outside Coors.. Castellanos been in Detroit's cavernous stadium. He's gonna tear the cover off the ball in a full year in Cincy.. I'd bet he crushes Mazara output.


Maybe. Maybe not. I still think that a guy who has basically the same stats as a guy four year older has got more potential productivity than the older guy. The Sox also saved some money in the process. Mazara is only 24 years old and has good major league experience already. He conceivably can profit from the very able hitters surrounding him on this team both on the field and off of the field.


Mazara also isn't an absolute liability in RF. Robert would be dead in a year trying to cover for Castellanos and Jimenez.


I think he would have seen plenty of time at DH and they wouldn't have signed Encarnacion.

The team would have been much more flexible offensively and defensively with Castellanos instead of Mazara and Encarnacion. It also would have allowed for more Grandal days at DH

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:01 am 
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Nas wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
312player wrote:
We'll see, Texas is easily the best hitters park outside Coors.. Castellanos been in Detroit's cavernous stadium. He's gonna tear the cover off the ball in a full year in Cincy.. I'd bet he crushes Mazara output.


Maybe. Maybe not. I still think that a guy who has basically the same stats as a guy four year older has got more potential productivity than the older guy. The Sox also saved some money in the process. Mazara is only 24 years old and has good major league experience already. He conceivably can profit from the very able hitters surrounding him on this team both on the field and off of the field.


Mazara also isn't an absolute liability in RF. Robert would be dead in a year trying to cover for Castellanos and Jimenez.


That's correct. The production of our outfield is going to be much better this year by a lot. Think of it. The Sox had literally no long ball and RBI production out of center and right field last year. Their production out of those two position players in this present line-up will probably triple. Wouldn't doubt also that Jimenez will battle for the AL home run title. 8) 8) 8)

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:23 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.


Mazara isn't even a full time player. Right now, he is on the very fringes of being an MLB starter. He isn't even Avi Garcia.

Castellanos has been sitting at +.800 OPS for four years. Now he enters his baseball prime and gets to play outside of Detroit (the guy has been a doubles machine in a huge park so you can expect his HR totals to increase)

Money isn't an issue. Sox are STILL below league average.

Yes, Castellanos is 10M better and it wouldn't have cost a legit MLB prospect


He's only projected to hit 24 home runs and the splits say that he was a far better hitter at home. He has a .760 OPS on the road for his career. He also played in the 3 most hitter friendly park in baseball when he was in Detroit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/91 ... =0&season={"name":"ALL_SEASONS","season":"","seasonPhase":"REGULAR_SEASON","groupedBySeason":false,"requiredPhase":"season.phase.regular","displayName":true}

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/202 ... he-numbers

Mazara is a lot younger, a better defender and was more productive in a park that's ranked 15th of the list of hitter friendly parks. He's now moving to a more hitter friendly park and he's at the age when players start to really figure things out.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:38 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.


Mazara isn't even a full time player. Right now, he is on the very fringes of being an MLB starter. He isn't even Avi Garcia.

Castellanos has been sitting at +.800 OPS for four years. Now he enters his baseball prime and gets to play outside of Detroit (the guy has been a doubles machine in a huge park so you can expect his HR totals to increase)

Money isn't an issue. Sox are STILL below league average.

Yes, Castellanos is 10M better and it wouldn't have cost a legit MLB prospect


He's only projected to hit 24 home runs and the splits say that he was a far better hitter at home. He has a .760 OPS on the road for his career. He also played in the 3 most hitter friendly park in baseball when he was in Detroit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/91 ... =0&season={"name":"ALL_SEASONS","season":"","seasonPhase":"REGULAR_SEASON","groupedBySeason":false,"requiredPhase":"season.phase.regular","displayName":true}

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/202 ... he-numbers

Mazara is a lot younger, a better defender and was more productive in a park that's ranked 15th of the list of hitter friendly parks. He's now moving to a more hitter friendly park and he's at the age when players start to really figure things out.



Coors is 1
Texas Rangers 2

That can't be disputed.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:42 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.


Mazara isn't even a full time player. Right now, he is on the very fringes of being an MLB starter. He isn't even Avi Garcia.

Castellanos has been sitting at +.800 OPS for four years. Now he enters his baseball prime and gets to play outside of Detroit (the guy has been a doubles machine in a huge park so you can expect his HR totals to increase)

Money isn't an issue. Sox are STILL below league average.

Yes, Castellanos is 10M better and it wouldn't have cost a legit MLB prospect


He's only projected to hit 24 home runs and the splits say that he was a far better hitter at home. He has a .760 OPS on the road for his career. He also played in the 3 most hitter friendly park in baseball when he was in Detroit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/91 ... =0&season={"name":"ALL_SEASONS","season":"","seasonPhase":"REGULAR_SEASON","groupedBySeason":false,"requiredPhase":"season.phase.regular","displayName":true}

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/202 ... he-numbers

Mazara is a lot younger, a better defender and was more productive in a park that's ranked 15th of the list of hitter friendly parks. He's now moving to a more hitter friendly park and he's at the age when players start to really figure things out.


Don't overly rely on home/away to make that determination. Most players will play better at home, no matter where that home is. This is the fallacy some are arguing with Arenado

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:55 am 
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312player wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.


Mazara isn't even a full time player. Right now, he is on the very fringes of being an MLB starter. He isn't even Avi Garcia.

Castellanos has been sitting at +.800 OPS for four years. Now he enters his baseball prime and gets to play outside of Detroit (the guy has been a doubles machine in a huge park so you can expect his HR totals to increase)

Money isn't an issue. Sox are STILL below league average.

Yes, Castellanos is 10M better and it wouldn't have cost a legit MLB prospect


He's only projected to hit 24 home runs and the splits say that he was a far better hitter at home. He has a .760 OPS on the road for his career. He also played in the 3 most hitter friendly park in baseball when he was in Detroit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/91 ... =0&season={"name":"ALL_SEASONS","season":"","seasonPhase":"REGULAR_SEASON","groupedBySeason":false,"requiredPhase":"season.phase.regular","displayName":true}

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/202 ... he-numbers

Mazara is a lot younger, a better defender and was more productive in a park that's ranked 15th of the list of hitter friendly parks. He's now moving to a more hitter friendly park and he's at the age when players start to really figure things out.



Coors is 1
Texas Rangers 2

That can't be disputed.


If you click the link people a lot smarter than you dispute that.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:59 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.


Mazara isn't even a full time player. Right now, he is on the very fringes of being an MLB starter. He isn't even Avi Garcia.

Castellanos has been sitting at +.800 OPS for four years. Now he enters his baseball prime and gets to play outside of Detroit (the guy has been a doubles machine in a huge park so you can expect his HR totals to increase)

Money isn't an issue. Sox are STILL below league average.

Yes, Castellanos is 10M better and it wouldn't have cost a legit MLB prospect


He's only projected to hit 24 home runs and the splits say that he was a far better hitter at home. He has a .760 OPS on the road for his career. He also played in the 3 most hitter friendly park in baseball when he was in Detroit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/91 ... =0&season={"name":"ALL_SEASONS","season":"","seasonPhase":"REGULAR_SEASON","groupedBySeason":false,"requiredPhase":"season.phase.regular","displayName":true}

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/202 ... he-numbers

Mazara is a lot younger, a better defender and was more productive in a park that's ranked 15th of the list of hitter friendly parks. He's now moving to a more hitter friendly park and he's at the age when players start to really figure things out.


Don't overly rely on home/away to make that determination. Most players will play better at home, no matter where that home is. This is the fallacy some are arguing with Arenado


The experts expect him to be pretty much the same player he's always been this season. Minus the triples because of the center field in Detroit.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:23 pm 
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Nas wrote:
312player wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think Hahn played his cards right on the RF situation.

The FA possibilities all signed for short, affordable deals. The trade possibilities ended up going for even less than Walker's value. I don't think Mazara will be any different than the guy he was in Texas, which is just ok.


Is Castellanos $10M better than Mazara? I would say no.


Mazara isn't even a full time player. Right now, he is on the very fringes of being an MLB starter. He isn't even Avi Garcia.

Castellanos has been sitting at +.800 OPS for four years. Now he enters his baseball prime and gets to play outside of Detroit (the guy has been a doubles machine in a huge park so you can expect his HR totals to increase)

Money isn't an issue. Sox are STILL below league average.

Yes, Castellanos is 10M better and it wouldn't have cost a legit MLB prospect


He's only projected to hit 24 home runs and the splits say that he was a far better hitter at home. He has a .760 OPS on the road for his career. He also played in the 3 most hitter friendly park in baseball when he was in Detroit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/91 ... =0&season={"name":"ALL_SEASONS","season":"","seasonPhase":"REGULAR_SEASON","groupedBySeason":false,"requiredPhase":"season.phase.regular","displayName":true}

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/202 ... he-numbers

Mazara is a lot younger, a better defender and was more productive in a park that's ranked 15th of the list of hitter friendly parks. He's now moving to a more hitter friendly park and he's at the age when players start to really figure things out.



Coors is 1
Texas Rangers 2

That can't be disputed.


If you click the link people a lot smarter than you dispute that.



Those nerds crunched those numbers 8 years ago.. anybody that knows baseball will tell ya Coors one.. the next two highest altitudes are Arizona and Texas..Texas has fuckall for foul territory and highest temps in baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:30 pm 
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If you click the link people a lot smarter than you dispute that.
People a lot smarter than 312 also ask, "Would you like fries with that?"

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:59 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
312player wrote:
We'll see, Texas is easily the best hitters park outside Coors.. Castellanos been in Detroit's cavernous stadium. He's gonna tear the cover off the ball in a full year in Cincy.. I'd bet he crushes Mazara output.


Maybe. Maybe not. I still think that a guy who has basically the same stats as a guy four year older has got more potential productivity than the older guy. The Sox also saved some money in the process. Mazara is only 24 years old and has good major league experience already. He conceivably can profit from the very able hitters surrounding him on this team both on the field and off of the field.


Mazara also isn't an absolute liability in RF. Robert would be dead in a year trying to cover for Castellanos and Jimenez.


I think he would have seen plenty of time at DH and they wouldn't have signed Encarnacion.

The team would have been much more flexible offensively and defensively with Castellanos instead of Mazara and Encarnacion. It also would have allowed for more Grandal days at DH


Encarnacion will hit 30 bombs and have around 85-90 RBis and makes an already very good line-up basically awesome. And Grandal will still get his DH spots when McCann catches. You really over value Castellanos.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:56 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:59 pm 
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Havana White Sox.

Love it

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:28 pm 
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Probably the best arm they have in the system right away. Plenty of money left over for Colas, too.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Offseason
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:05 pm 
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Don’t hate the Sox for using the market inefficiency that is Cuba.

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