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Seacrest
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:55 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
So much national conversation about such an infinitesimally small subset of the population.



The conversation has nothing to do with "a small subset" of anything.

It's a discussion about the definition of who and what a person is.

That effects everyone, which is why it's being discussed.

See. Even Seacrest can accept them.

Are you under the impression that I'm not accepting of them?
Truthfully, my stance is significantly more compassionate than Wade's in my opinion. If this was my child, and I knew statistically speaking there was literally a 50% chance hed attempt suicide, walking him down the path hes finding himself on will not help him, and I'd try to find another way.

What is the other way? You don't think Wade will have counseling available?



Based SOLELY on what has been reported, do you think Wade even believes that his son needs counseling?

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
So much national conversation about such an infinitesimally small subset of the population.



The conversation has nothing to do with "a small subset" of anything.

It's a discussion about the definition of who and what a person is.

That effects everyone, which is why it's being discussed.

See. Even Seacrest can accept them.

Are you under the impression that I'm not accepting of them?
Truthfully, my stance is significantly more compassionate than Wade's in my opinion. If this was my child, and I knew statistically speaking there was literally a 50% chance hed attempt suicide, walking him down the path hes finding himself on will not help him, and I'd try to find another way.



Without seeming terribly academic about this Sigmund there isn't a 50% chance that he will attempt anything, let alone suicide. You cannot posit that he will do this simply because others with his sexuality have done it. The only way that you can draw the sort of correlation that you are seeking to draw is if you can definitively establish that being transgender caused the suicide. You can't so its probably best to stop trying.

You can save the insults.
Statistics show transgender males attempt suicide at a 50% clip. Does that mean that whether this child attempts suicide is a coin flip? Of course not. There are millions of factors at play. But let me ask you, if your family history revealed you have a 50% chance of acquiring colon cancer by age 50, would you be getting biannual colonoscopies starting before your 45th?


Yeah but the reason that I would actually do it is because studies show that one of the causes of cancer happens to be hereditary. It wouldn't be simply because 50% of my family members have cancer

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Last edited by long time guy on Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
So much national conversation about such an infinitesimally small subset of the population.



The conversation has nothing to do with "a small subset" of anything.

It's a discussion about the definition of who and what a person is.

That effects everyone, which is why it's being discussed.

See. Even Seacrest can accept them.

Are you under the impression that I'm not accepting of them?
Truthfully, my stance is significantly more compassionate than Wade's in my opinion. If this was my child, and I knew statistically speaking there was literally a 50% chance hed attempt suicide, walking him down the path hes finding himself on will not help him, and I'd try to find another way.

What is the other way? You don't think Wade will have counseling available?



Based SOLELY on what has been reported, do you think Wade even believes that his son needs counseling?
Yes. It's pretty much the standard of care here.

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:58 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is the other way? You don't think Wade will have counseling available?

I'm sure counseling will be available however I'm be concerned that its success would be limited if the child is allowed to have the symptoms reinforced thru normalization and potentially surgery.

So the counseling would be treating it as a disease with the only option being it is completely rejected? What happens if this treatment fails?

I'm not sure what you're trying to box me into but psychological treatment fails all the time. We generally accept drug or alcohol addiction as a disease rather than just something we identify as and treatment like rehab or AA shows a significant failure rate. It doesn't mean that those behaviors should be normalized or untreated.
I don't even know if there is a agreed upon treatment, it's difficult to research such things when politically its impossible to agree on a pathology.

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Terry's Peeps
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:02 pm 
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long time guy wrote:

Yeah but the reason that I would actually do it is because studies show that one of the causes of cancer happens to be hereditary. It wouldn't be simply because 50% of my family members have cancer


Would you be more wary of heart health and eating well if 50% of your family died of heart related illness?

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:02 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
I don't even know if there is a agreed upon treatment, it's difficult to research such things when politically its impossible to agree on a pathology.


Herein lies the problem with your assumption. What if an even greater number of those that have committed suicide were found to be addicted to drugs? Or unemployed? Would you then say that it was more likely that they committed suicide because they were drug addicts or transexuals? unemployed or transsexual?

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Seacrest
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:04 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
So much national conversation about such an infinitesimally small subset of the population.



The conversation has nothing to do with "a small subset" of anything.

It's a discussion about the definition of who and what a person is.

That effects everyone, which is why it's being discussed.

See. Even Seacrest can accept them.

Are you under the impression that I'm not accepting of them?
Truthfully, my stance is significantly more compassionate than Wade's in my opinion. If this was my child, and I knew statistically speaking there was literally a 50% chance hed attempt suicide, walking him down the path hes finding himself on will not help him, and I'd try to find another way.

What is the other way? You don't think Wade will have counseling available?

Based SOLELY on what has been reported, do you think Wade even believes that his son needs counseling?


Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Yes. It's pretty much the standard of care here.


That doesn't answer my question though.

What has Wade done or said that would lead you to believe that?

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:05 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Yeah but the reason that I would actually do it is because studies show that one of the causes of cancer happens to be hereditary. It wouldn't be simply because 50% of my family members have cancer


Would you be more wary of heart health and eating well if 50% of your family died of heart related illness?


Sure but it would be mostly due to hereditary factors. Its no different than hereditary mental illness. People are more attentive to it when there is a history of mental illness found in the family than they would be otherwise.

Its hard to simply say that it is caused by being transsexual if there is no evidence to support it.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:06 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is the other way? You don't think Wade will have counseling available?

I'm sure counseling will be available however I'm be concerned that its success would be limited if the child is allowed to have the symptoms reinforced thru normalization and potentially surgery.

So the counseling would be treating it as a disease with the only option being it is completely rejected? What happens if this treatment fails?

I'm not sure what you're trying to box me into but psychological treatment fails all the time. We generally accept drug or alcohol addiction as a disease rather than just something we identify as and treatment like rehab or AA shows a significant failure rate. It doesn't mean that those behaviors should be normalized or untreated.
I don't even know if there is a agreed upon treatment, it's difficult to research such things when politically its impossible to agree on a pathology.

My point is complete rejection of their point of view could very well lead to the same outcome or worse.

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:06 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Darkside wrote:
I don't even know if there is a agreed upon treatment, it's difficult to research such things when politically its impossible to agree on a pathology.


Herein lies the problem with your assumption. What if an even greater number of those that have committed suicide were found to be addicted to drugs? Or unemployed? Would you then say that it was more likely that they committed suicide because they were drug addicts or transexuals? unemployed or transsexual?

I would say that one would have to research whether the addiction was a symptom of their pathology. Suicide rates amongst the transgendered is still significantly higher than the addicted or unemployed.
Of course theres interwoven issues here. They are human beings and naturally you cannot boil down all factors into one number, however you can see a significant trend here that regardless of other factors is demanding of our attention. That suicide rate is astronomical. Something should be done beyond giving in and normalizing.

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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:07 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:

That doesn't answer my question though.

What has Wade done or said that would lead you to believe that?


He said on Ellen he immediately called “her” a leader.

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is the other way? You don't think Wade will have counseling available?

I'm sure counseling will be available however I'm be concerned that its success would be limited if the child is allowed to have the symptoms reinforced thru normalization and potentially surgery.

So the counseling would be treating it as a disease with the only option being it is completely rejected? What happens if this treatment fails?

I'm not sure what you're trying to box me into but psychological treatment fails all the time. We generally accept drug or alcohol addiction as a disease rather than just something we identify as and treatment like rehab or AA shows a significant failure rate. It doesn't mean that those behaviors should be normalized or untreated.
I don't even know if there is a agreed upon treatment, it's difficult to research such things when politically its impossible to agree on a pathology.

My point is complete rejection of their point of view could very well lead to the same outcome or worse.

Ok. So when a psychotic thinks that there are multiple people in the room with them that there are not, you're of the opinion that we should not reject that point of view because it could be upsetting?
If we reinforce a belief or feeling that is not grounded in reality we must ultimately do more harm than good.

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Seacrest
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is the other way? You don't think Wade will have counseling available?

I'm sure counseling will be available however I'm be concerned that its success would be limited if the child is allowed to have the symptoms reinforced thru normalization and potentially surgery.

So the counseling would be treating it as a disease with the only option being it is completely rejected? What happens if this treatment fails?

I'm not sure what you're trying to box me into but psychological treatment fails all the time. We generally accept drug or alcohol addiction as a disease rather than just something we identify as and treatment like rehab or AA shows a significant failure rate. It doesn't mean that those behaviors should be normalized or untreated.
I don't even know if there is a agreed upon treatment, it's difficult to research such things when politically its impossible to agree on a pathology.

My point is complete rejection of their point of view could very well lead to the same outcome or worse.


It certainly could.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:11 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Yeah but the reason that I would actually do it is because studies show that one of the causes of cancer happens to be hereditary. It wouldn't be simply because 50% of my family members have cancer


Would you be more wary of heart health and eating well if 50% of your family died of heart related illness?


YOLO

Everyone dies of a heart attack by 50 but we're given lard and butter at 3 months.

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:12 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Yeah but the reason that I would actually do it is because studies show that one of the causes of cancer happens to be hereditary. It wouldn't be simply because 50% of my family members have cancer


Would you be more wary of heart health and eating well if 50% of your family died of heart related illness?


YOLO

:lol:

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Terry's Peeps
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:13 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Yeah but the reason that I would actually do it is because studies show that one of the causes of cancer happens to be hereditary. It wouldn't be simply because 50% of my family members have cancer


Would you be more wary of heart health and eating well if 50% of your family died of heart related illness?


YOLO

Everyone dies of a heart attack by 50 but we're given lard and butter at 3 months.

:lol:

Truth

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:17 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What is the other way? You don't think Wade will have counseling available?

I'm sure counseling will be available however I'm be concerned that its success would be limited if the child is allowed to have the symptoms reinforced thru normalization and potentially surgery.

So the counseling would be treating it as a disease with the only option being it is completely rejected? What happens if this treatment fails?

I'm not sure what you're trying to box me into but psychological treatment fails all the time. We generally accept drug or alcohol addiction as a disease rather than just something we identify as and treatment like rehab or AA shows a significant failure rate. It doesn't mean that those behaviors should be normalized or untreated.
I don't even know if there is a agreed upon treatment, it's difficult to research such things when politically its impossible to agree on a pathology.

My point is complete rejection of their point of view could very well lead to the same outcome or worse.

Ok. So when a psychotic thinks that there are multiple people in the room with them that there are not, you're of the opinion that we should not reject that point of view because it could be upsetting?
If we reinforce a belief or feeling that is not grounded in reality we must ultimately do more harm than good.
Are you comparing transgender and psychosis?

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:20 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Are you comparing transgender and psychosis?

In the sense that they are both examples of a mental illness, yes.

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:28 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
long time guy wrote:

Yeah but the reason that I would actually do it is because studies show that one of the causes of cancer happens to be hereditary. It wouldn't be simply because 50% of my family members have cancer


Would you be more wary of heart health and eating well if 50% of your family died of heart related illness?


Sure but it would be mostly due to hereditary factors. Its no different than hereditary mental illness. People are more attentive to it when there is a history of mental illness found in the family than they would be otherwise.

Its hard to simply say that it is caused by being transsexual if there is no evidence to support it.

For the record, gender dysphoria is likely to have genetic causes as well as environmental ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
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Man, these trannies, huh?

Every time.

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K Effective
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
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I'm not about to dive into the fray here, only to include that I feel for the parents as well as the child and siblings. These scenarios often tear the family apart, and the treatments for the female-born transitioning to male is irreversible and need to start before puberty really kicks in. To be forced into a life decision at that young of an age is terrible. I wish the best for all involved.
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 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
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K Effective wrote:
the treatments for the female-born transitioning to male is irreversible and need to start before puberty really kicks in.

This one is the other way around, as the overwhelming majority of cases are.

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Rod
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How do you define "boy" then?
That's an interesting question. If I said the answer included something like "A girl wears dresses and a boy does not" would you agree? What if I said "A girl plays with baby dolls and a boy plays with trucks"? What if I said "A boy has short hair and a girl has long hair"? At least traditionally, those are all fairly widely accepted gender roles.

What happens when a "boy" or "girl" wants to do things not associated with their gender in those questions?

:lol:

What a strange response.
Why is it strange? Gender, at least in this discussion, is about behavior. I don't believe any medical intervention is being considered outside of counseling.

So those questions are valid.


It certainly did not answer the question posed.
Sure it did. I can make it clear for those with less cognitive ability than me though such as WFR.

"Transgender" without medical intervention is basically all behavioral. It's living your life as would be expected as a "boy" or a "girl" would and we all have our own mental projection of what those behaviors are. If for some reason, a genetic male feels that wearing a dress and makeup is what they are most comfortable with then they would be living life as a "girl".


I missed this post earlier. I don't think that's what transgender is at all. My sister is a dyke who probably lives her life very similarly to the way Ike South lives his. She dresses like a stevedore and got married in swearshirt. She doesn't think she's a man though.

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K Effective
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
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Curious Hair wrote:
K Effective wrote:
the treatments for the female-born transitioning to male is irreversible and need to start before puberty really kicks in.

This one is the other way around, as the overwhelming majority of cases are.


Right. And the drug treatments can start early, but many of the results reverse if the drugs stop. Until the surgery takes place, it can kind of reverse. I'm not sure how early the surgery can be performed, but I assume it would be 18 or older.

The sterilization caused by testosterone treatment cannot be reversed at this time. Even if appearances can be changed, as I understand it, the person could not conceive later in life.

My info comes almost exclusively from a NOVA special about the topic, so I am no expert by any means. I was able to develop sympathy for the people involved, and am thankful I did not have to face this challenge with my kids.
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K Effective
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
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Sorry, that posted twice.
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Spaulding
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
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Why does anybody need surgery to be the gender they want? If they feel they are something and live how they think that gender lives why isn't that enough? What does it matter what's between your legs?
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 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
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Spaulding wrote:
Why does anybody need surgery to be the gender they want? If they feel they are something and live how they think that gender lives why isn't that enough? What does it matter what's between your legs?


Hello

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Antarctica
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

That's part of the issue. Most of these kids don't have gender dysphoria at all. Just unwitting parents who are following a political agenda they think makes them "good people".

And history is filled with stories of people doing monstrous things to those they ostensibly care about because they think its the right thing.

GoldenJet wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
billypootons wrote:

are there example stories of kids who trans'd but their later in life.... oh nevermind i actually am the gender my chromosomes said i was?

Countless, but nobody actually knows how prevalent it is. You'd actually be shocked how little real unbiased research has gone into this issue. I reckon most people who would be carrying out these studies are afraid because they would be eviscerated for telling some pretty ugly truths about this trend.

Generally speaking I assume whenever you are questioning the damage wrought by the transgender fad and the answers aren't available from academia then you should probably assume it is way worse than you've been led to believe. The effect of career and social intimidation plus the obfuscation of what little facts there actually are have turned this whole thing into voodooism.


Post a few of these countless tales of regret

As if it would matter had I actually posted these easily discoverable stories.
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Antarctica
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:04 pm 
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If a paranoid schizophrenic insisted that he was being hunted by the CIA would it be socially acceptable to indulge those delusions? He's just "living his life", after all. None of your business.
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GoldenJet
 Post subject: Re: Dwyane Wade?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:07 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

That's part of the issue. Most of these kids don't have gender dysphoria at all. Just unwitting parents who are following a political agenda they think makes them "good people".

And history is filled with stories of people doing monstrous things to those they ostensibly care about because they think its the right thing.

GoldenJet wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
billypootons wrote:

are there example stories of kids who trans'd but their later in life.... oh nevermind i actually am the gender my chromosomes said i was?

Countless, but nobody actually knows how prevalent it is. You'd actually be shocked how little real unbiased research has gone into this issue. I reckon most people who would be carrying out these studies are afraid because they would be eviscerated for telling some pretty ugly truths about this trend.

Generally speaking I assume whenever you are questioning the damage wrought by the transgender fad and the answers aren't available from academia then you should probably assume it is way worse than you've been led to believe. The effect of career and social intimidation plus the obfuscation of what little facts there actually are have turned this whole thing into voodooism.


Post a few of these countless tales of regret

As if it would matter had I actually posted these easily discoverable stories.


The regret is mostly found amongst older trannies...those who decided to transition as older adults.

It's not something to be decided without much consultatuon and therapy

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