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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:20 pm 
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DAC wrote:
Trevor Bauer destroyed the Astros in a recent rant published on the Athletic. Great stuff.

Hopefully Bauer has a great first half of the year, gets named the ASG starter, and drills Altuve or Bregman or Springer and gets thrown out of the game and suspended.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:36 pm 
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I don't know who they play opening day, but I'd love for them to have three minor league pitchers start the game and throw at the Astros until they each get thrown out. I figure they can hit five of them to start the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:37 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
I don't know who they play opening day, but I'd love for them to have three minor league pitchers start the game and throw at the Astros until they each get thrown out. I figure they can hit five of them to start the game.

Oh they're gonna break don Baylor's record.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:44 pm 
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I hope everyone refuses to play them during spring training. The games don't matter so they could probably get away with doing it and kind of fuck their spring training ticket/concession sales up.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:22 pm 
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Maybe the catchers just tell the Astros what pitches are coming ,so they don't have to cheat.

"Fastball, at your head"
"Fastball, at your ribs"

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:03 pm 
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The Houston Astros' former No. 1 overall prospect was just banned 162 games ... and, no, it has nothing to do with the team's cheating scandal.

The MLB announced Francis Martes -- a pitcher who was touted as the team's next big thing back in 2016 -- has been suspended for a full season for testing positive for PEDs.

It's the second time Martes has been busted for violating the league's drug policy ... in March 2019, he was banned 80 games after a positive drug test

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:28 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Quote:
The Houston Astros' former No. 1 overall prospect was just banned 162 games ... and, no, it has nothing to do with the team's cheating scandal.

The MLB announced Francis Martes -- a pitcher who was touted as the team's next big thing back in 2016 -- has been suspended for a full season for testing positive for PEDs.

It's the second time Martes has been busted for violating the league's drug policy ... in March 2019, he was banned 80 games after a positive drug test


When you see a talented guy like this fizzle you have to respect the job Hahn did in acquiring prospects for Sale, Eaton and Quintana. I fall into the belief as well that he was in a no lose situation in those trades but you see that those trades could have all gone horribly wrong. Martes was a guy I think was being discussed in one of the trades.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:32 am 
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I didn't think this story would have the legs it does. I'm guessing Manfred didn't either. The Astros aren't helping by continuing to discuss it.

I'm surprised by how angry the younger fans and writers are about this. It seems like the demand to punish the players is gaining steam everyday. That would be difficult with the Player's Association. But it doesn't seem like this is just going to go away.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:38 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I didn't think this story would have the legs it does. I'm guessing Manfred didn't either. The Astros aren't helping by continuing to discuss it.

I'm surprised by how angry the younger fans and writers are about this. It seems like the demand to punish the players is gaining steam everyday. That would be difficult with the Player's Association. But it doesn't seem like this is just going to go away.

Manfred thinks the scarlet letter is enough. Maybe it is. It's not like we don't have examples of the scarlet letter working.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:41 am 
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What rule number is it that says you can't use electronics to your advantage?

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:50 am 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
What rule number is it that says you can't use electronics to your advantage?



Quote:
At the December 1961 Winter Meetings, the National League banned the use of a "mechanical device" to steal signs.[7] The use of electronic equipment is not specifically forbidden by MLB rules, but in 2001, Sandy Alderson, while serving as executive vice president for baseball operations of MLB, issued a memorandum stating that teams cannot use electronic equipment to communicate with each other during games, especially for the purpose of stealing signs.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:57 am 
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In Feb, 2019, MLB drafted a five-page document which essentially takes a rule already on the books, from 1961, that signs cannot be stolen from the dugout, bullpens or essentially anywhere other than via a runner on second base.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:58 am 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
What rule number is it that says you can't use electronics to your advantage?



Quote:
At the December 1961 Winter Meetings, the National League banned the use of a "mechanical device" to steal signs.[7] The use of electronic equipment is not specifically forbidden by MLB rules, but in 2001, Sandy Alderson, while serving as executive vice president for baseball operations of MLB, issued a memorandum stating that teams cannot use electronic equipment to communicate with each other during games, especially for the purpose of stealing signs.

So none

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:02 pm 
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Well, alrighty then.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:03 pm 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
What rule number is it that says you can't use electronics to your advantage?



Quote:
At the December 1961 Winter Meetings, the National League banned the use of a "mechanical device" to steal signs.[7] The use of electronic equipment is not specifically forbidden by MLB rules, but in 2001, Sandy Alderson, while serving as executive vice president for baseball operations of MLB, issued a memorandum stating that teams cannot use electronic equipment to communicate with each other during games, especially for the purpose of stealing signs.

So none


So you think the Astros were within their rights to do what they did?

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:07 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Well, alrighty then.

and to be so naïve that the Red Sox and Astro's were the "only" teams to be doing it shows just who is being cheated....the fans 8)

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:20 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I didn't think this story would have the legs it does. I'm guessing Manfred didn't either. The Astros aren't helping by continuing to discuss it.

I'm surprised by how angry the younger fans and writers are about this. It seems like the demand to punish the players is gaining steam everyday. That would be difficult with the Player's Association. But it doesn't seem like this is just going to go away.


I think everyone just has to want blood even if they don't know why.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:23 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I think everyone just has to want blood even if they don't know why.


Some people don't mind unethical behavior, some people do.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:25 pm 
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If this had been as well-known (or suspected) by other teams as described, you'd think there would have been effective countermeasures taken. They think a fastball is coming? Throw a changeup. They get the signal for curve? Give them a high hard one. Do that a few times and I have a hard time believing hitters would trust the signals enough to make a difference.

I still think it was outside the rules and ethically wrong, but it's not like there were no options for teams to counteract.

This hasn't been mentioned at all, but what if a catcher was actually helping batters out? Is it beyond imagination that a catcher who didn't like his pitcher would tip off the pitches to his friends on the other team? That would be sickening, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:27 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
I think everyone just has to want blood even if they don't know why.


Some people don't mind unethical behavior, some people do.


Because none of us have cheated or gamed a system in any way.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:33 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
If this had been as well-known (or suspected) by other teams as described, you'd think there would have been effective countermeasures taken. They think a fastball is coming? Throw a changeup. They get the signal for curve? Give them a high hard one. Do that a few times and I have a hard time believing hitters would trust the signals enough to make a difference.

I still think it was outside the rules and ethically wrong, but it's not like there were no options for teams to counteract.

This hasn't been mentioned at all, but what if a catcher was actually helping batters out? Is it beyond imagination that a catcher who didn't like his pitcher would tip off the pitches to his friends on the other team? That would be sickening, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.

Seems laughable,....but is it? The collusion there was between owners and players in the steroid era? The NOT going the full nine yards on testing? The ADHD prescriptions? The substance freely put on baseballs for spin rate? The sweeping under the rug the sign stealing? Is this a competitive sport or is it solely entertainment?

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:35 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
I think everyone just has to want blood even if they don't know why.


Some people don't mind unethical behavior, some people do.


Because none of us have cheated or gamed a system in any way.


Maybe JORR had a point about you.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:31 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
I think everyone just has to want blood even if they don't know why.


Some people don't mind unethical behavior, some people do.


Because none of us have cheated or gamed a system in any way.


Nas coming out in favor of trans athletes competing in women's sports. SAD!


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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:40 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
I think everyone just has to want blood even if they don't know why.


Some people don't mind unethical behavior, some people do.


Because none of us have cheated or gamed a system in any way.


Nas coming out in favor of trans athletes competing in women's sports. SAD!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:42 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:
I think everyone just has to want blood even if they don't know why.


Some people don't mind unethical behavior, some people do.


Because none of us have cheated or gamed a system in any way.


Maybe JORR had a point about you.


What did he say?

Every team in every sport has gamed the system in some way. Players are still gaming the system. To pretend that the game has ever been pure is EXTREMELY naive. You know better!

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:49 pm 
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Nas wrote:

What did he say?

Every team in every sport has gamed the system in some way. Players are still gaming the system. To pretend that the game has ever been pure is EXTREMELY naive. You know better!


You get caught you pay the price. This is way worse than a couple of guys supposedly tanking the 1919 world series.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:03 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Nas wrote:

What did he say?

Every team in every sport has gamed the system in some way. Players are still gaming the system. To pretend that the game has ever been pure is EXTREMELY naive. You know better!


You get caught you pay the price. This is way worse than a couple of guys supposedly tanking the 1919 world series.


I don't think this is close to intentionally losing. That's unforgivable. There was no established price to pay. Someone will always want a harsher penalty. NOT ENOUGH BLOOD!

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:04 pm 
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Saying you actually didn't win the world series two years ago is too much blood? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:08 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Saying you actually didn't win the world series two years ago is too much blood? :lol: :lol: :lol:


It's an unprecedented penalty. Takes some huge stones to do that. I think on some level most fans will view that WS the same way we view Bonds' homerun record.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheating Astros
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:22 pm 
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Man, Bonds would have slugged 2.000 and hit 100 home runs if someone was feeding him the pitches.


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