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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:54 pm 
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Source: Bulls executive John Paxson willing to step down from franchise

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2020 ... gar-forman

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:08 pm 
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Don't wait for them to ask...just leave !


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:18 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
Don't wait for them to ask...just leave !

This is what it's come to for Reinsdorf operations. A shitty employee who has sucked at his job for years has to fire himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:19 pm 
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And if Pax has suggested this, he already knows it's a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:19 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
Don't wait for them to ask...just leave !


Exactly. JFC.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:56 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
Don't wait for them to ask...just leave !

This is what it's come to for Reinsdorf operations. A shitty employee who has sucked at his job for years has to fire himself.

Michael Jordan is rolling over in his grave


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:16 pm 
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Larry had a reporter from the Denver market on his show today to talk about Karnisovas and how he would do with the Bulls. Guy sounds pretty impressive.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:19 pm 
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Lot of empty seats at Bulls games this season. Probably one of the main reasons that they are making changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:48 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:25 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:27 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
Don't wait for them to ask...just leave !

This is what it's come to for Reinsdorf operations. A shitty employee who has sucked at his job for years has to fire himself.



Kinda like Robin Ventura

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:28 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Lot of empty seats at Bulls games this season. Probably one of the main reasons that they are making changes.



Paxson still in charge?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:35 pm 
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312player wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
Don't wait for them to ask...just leave !

This is what it's come to for Reinsdorf operations. A shitty employee who has sucked at his job for years has to fire himself.



Kinda like Robin Ventura

Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:37 pm 
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For all you youngsters out there, that guy is a Lugin.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:43 pm 
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FrankDrebin wrote:

Fall guy for Paxson and Gar.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:51 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:57 pm 
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If Gar is gone and this dude is hired and he brings in a new coaching staff then that is about as good as a Bulls fan could hope for.

I will be happy and willing to give the new group a chance.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:15 pm 
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Knives are out for Gar.

Bulls GM Gar Forman had a slow rise to power and an even slower demise
Joe Cowley


The question was met with a wave of the hand.

Not a good wave, either.

The dismissive kind. The motion that belittles a person’s standing, as if they no longer matter.

“Scouting in Siberia,’’ a member of the Bulls organization joked two weeks ago.

And just like that the question was answered.

Where has Bulls general manager Gar Forman been the last few months?

More importantly, that question and answer symbolized what has been a slow burn felt throughout the organization for almost a year. That Forman, hired to that post in 2009, was all but done. His demise finally a reality, and mostly because of his own doing.

The NBA Executive of the Year for the 2011 season has been reduced to a lead scout. Hidden from media interactions for months, with his actual job duties more mystery than transparency.

Duties that will be coming to an end once the coronavirus shutdown is lifted off the league, and Bulls COO Michael Reinsdorf can get back to the business of restructuring his front office in what is expected to be the biggest overhaul in franchise history.

The Sun-Times was the first to break the story of Reinsdorf’s plans over the All-Star weekend, and while sources have told the newspaper as of last week that there was still some uncertainty of what role current vice president of basketball operations John Paxson will play in all of this, Forman will have absolutely no seat at the decision-making table, only keeping the GM title warm for his successor.

The days of disgruntled fans chanting “Fire Gar/Pax’’ can come to an end.

That’s because the “Gar’’ has already been removed.

Forman’s rise through the Bulls was not a quick one. Then again, because of his reputation he had in the wake of a scandal at New Mexico State from his college days, it shouldn’t have been a quick one.

Forman joined the Bulls as a scout in 1998, working his way up the ladder from director of player personnel to special assistant, and then finally landing his white whale – GM in 2009.

His timing was impeccable, but so was the initial job he did in his new post. Of course landing Derrick Rose in a 2008 draft lottery that the team only had a 1.7 percent chance of hitting on was beyond lucky, but championship teams are built on luck.

Other pieces were needed and Forman provided those.

Forman not only helped in the hiring of Tom Thibodeau, but was behind the scouting of Joakim Noah and Taj Gibson, and then as GM hit big on Jimmy Butler – maybe the best pick of his tenure.

The Bulls were winning, the United Center was still one of the toughest tickets in town, the money was flowing, and damn right the Reinsdorfs were happy.

If first impressions are everything, Forman connected on a homer with the first pitch he saw.

Then 2012 came, and in the wake of Rose’s organizational-changing knee injury, Forman would have to finally deal with adversity. If adversity measures the true worth of a person, it wasn’t long before Forman was exposed.

The drafting of Marquis Teague was catastrophic on many levels. First, because Thibodeau wanted Draymond Green and was vetoed, and secondly, because Forman was actually talked into the pick by Kentucky coach John Calipari. A fact that the higher-ups have admitted to happening.

But it was behind the scenes that Forman started to misplay his hand.

He quickly gained the reputation as a guy that was paranoid, turning his focus to keeping his job rather than doing his job.

That meant inserting “spies’’ throughout the entire organization, as the Sun-Times documented back in 2017 with then assistant GM/coach Randy Brown being identified as one of many. Brown denied the allegation to the paper, but former Bull Rip Hamilton came out days later and confirmed the suspicions around Brown.

Forman was also into the practice of confiscating the phones and computers of employees, looking for leaks or negative comments about him.

While Thibodeau had his obvious disagreements with Paxson, both knew where they stood with each other. Forman, however, played both sides of the fence, telling Thibodeau one thing, but bad-mouthing the coach to the players.

Even Paxson grew distrustful of Forman after he heard how Forman would go on these scouting trips and blame organizational mistakes on Paxson, doing everything he could to wipe the weapon clean of his fingerprints. The Sun-Times reported that story several times.

So how Forman stay employed?

Paxson, Thibodeau, and the players all knew one very important thing at the end of the day: As long as Forman had chairman Jerry Reinsdorf in his corner he was a made man. Untouchable even to Paxson.

One problem: Even untouchable has an expiration date.

The firing of Thibodeau was signed off on by Jerry Reinsdorf. A year before that was stamped, however, there were already rumors that Forman was recruiting Fred Hoiberg from Iowa State to be the next head coach.

The entire locker room knew that Forman operated that way.

Butler was hoping his loyalty would be treated differently. When he laid out his plans of how he wanted to stay in Chicago and recruit a championship-level team, he finished the presentation feeling like Forman was on board. So off to Europe he went, hoping the likes of Kyrie Irving or Kyle Lowry would be Bulls.

Within a few days, Butler wasn’t even a Bull, traded to the Timberwolves as the rebuild was underway.

That’s why Butler’s then-trainer Travelle Gaines immediately tweeted out that he “met drug dealers with better morals then their GM. He is a liar and everyone knows [it].’’

Butler then came out to the Sun-Times and voiced his displeasure with Forman, reiterating he felt lied to.

Letting Noah walk and trading Rose the year before raised some eyebrows with other NBA players. The well-liked Butler ripping into the GM, however?

Any small hope of game-changing free agents ever becoming a Bull had the final nail driven into the coffin.

As for the moves Forman made in getting to where the Bulls currently stand? The Butler trade has proven to be catastrophic, while life with Thibodeau has made the organization nothing but lottery dwellers.

What hit home with Jerry Reinsdorf earlier this season, however? The United Center had way more empty seats and the fan base was watching less and less.

The final straw, though, seemingly came in November, when the Sun-Times reported that former players were very angry when they felt Forman was aloof toward them when the Bulls honored Luol Deng at a home game.

Word got back to Jerry Reinsdorf, and the man that has always had Forman’s back was now done handing out life preservers.

Since then, Forman has been even more absent than usual, both at the United and Advocate Centers.

The Sun-Times initially reported that even with the front office restructure coming, Forman could be kept on as a lead scout or thrown a new title, but that even seems to no longer be in play.

The days of Forman and his cohorts lurking throughout the organization are all but done.

His title is months, maybe weeks, away from officially being stripped.

And unless there actually is NBA talent that needs “scouting in Siberia,’’ the demise of Forman is all but complete.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:23 pm 
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The new guy better have full control and answer only to Michael....not Jordan silly.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:37 pm 
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For what its worth Paxson had a hand in all of this too, and there is no indication that Paxson is on the outs either.

And really, Gar did all this and they still wont fire him? Its ridiculous. Nothing has changed.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:08 pm 
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Forman is done. Even if he does still have a job he isn't going to have a voice. Paxson may but I can see him quietly exiting once the new guy really gets going.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:58 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
For what its worth Paxson had a hand in all of this too, and there is no indication that Paxson is on the outs either.

And really, Gar did all this and they still wont fire him? Its ridiculous. Nothing has changed.


It was reported the other day that Paxson stated he would gladly step aside totally if that is what the new GM wants.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:00 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
For what its worth Paxson had a hand in all of this too, and there is no indication that Paxson is on the outs either.

And really, Gar did all this and they still wont fire him? Its ridiculous. Nothing has changed.


It was reported the other day that Paxson stated he would gladly step aside totally if that is what the new GM wants.

He can very easily say that kind of thing publicly or to reporters and then turn around and force Karnasovas to do his bidding.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:01 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Forman is done. Even if he does still have a job he isn't going to have a voice. Paxson may but I can see him quietly exiting once the new guy really gets going.

It would be nice get some info on what exactly is going on with Gar. How can you keep him around after all this?

I am not sure why Paxson would even want to stick around in any role.


But this whole organization has been fucked up for so long.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:08 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Forman is done. Even if he does still have a job he isn't going to have a voice. Paxson may but I can see him quietly exiting once the new guy really gets going.

It would be nice get some info on what exactly is going on with Gar. How can you keep him around after all this?

I am not sure why Paxson would even want to stick around in any role.


But this whole organization has been fucked up for so long.



I think that each will leave quietly. Particularly in Paxson's case there is so much history. Probably considers him to be like a son. Probably wants to give him the opportunity to leave on his own terms.

Forman won't be afforded the same opportunity. Probably will be a Press release sometime this summer (at the latest) announcing that he is gone. I'd be shocked if he is around at the start of next season.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:18 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
RFDC wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Forman is done. Even if he does still have a job he isn't going to have a voice. Paxson may but I can see him quietly exiting once the new guy really gets going.

It would be nice get some info on what exactly is going on with Gar. How can you keep him around after all this?

I am not sure why Paxson would even want to stick around in any role.


But this whole organization has been fucked up for so long.



I think that each will leave quietly. Particularly in Paxson's case there is so much history. Probably considers him to be like a son. Probably wants to give him the opportunity to leave on his own terms.

Forman won't be afforded the same opportunity. Probably will be a Press release sometime this summer (at the latest) announcing that he is gone. I'd be shocked if he is around at the start of next season.


I hope you are right. They need to toss Gar and Boylen out of the building. If they do not do those things then no one is going to take these moves seriously.

I am fine with them leaving Paxson in some advisory role as long as the new dude has the final say.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:06 pm 
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Quote:
"John Paxson came to me and my dad back — I think it was around December — and we started talking and he felt that we needed, the organization needed, to make a change and an upgrade," said Michael Reinsdorf. "He felt that we were too set in our ways. And when you look at it, our basketball department had long been one of the smallest departments in the league and it hadn't really grown with the times. In John's words, we needed to make changes in terms of the leadership and structure that would set up the Bulls for the next 10 to 15 years.

"During these conversations with John — and there were multiple conversations — John also made it clear to us that he would change his role or step down if that's what was best for the Chicago Bulls," Michael continued. "Because at the end of the day he's a Chicago Bull and that's what he cares most about. At the same time, I was kind of struggling, too, as most of you know, with trying and wanting to get the Bulls back on track. It was difficult because even though we made the decision to rebuild, we knew it was going to be hard in terms of losing. I looked at our draft record. We actually had some good drafts with Lauri Markkanen, Wendell Carter and Coby White. And then I look at a lot of our injuries and I saw what was going on and obviously that clearly affected our record. But at the end of the day, what John is really good at is person out there? I believe we did.


"During this time, John and I were talking and meeting on a regular basis. I started to share with him what I was learning," said Michael. "John continued to share with me what he was thinking. And it was kind of at this point that John indicated to my dad and me that he was no longer the right person to lead the Chicago Bulls. That's really the kind of person John is. I've always said when the time came to make a change, John would be the one to let us know. And that is indeed what ended up happening. I was really excited because it made the next steps clearer for me. We not only needed to grow our basketball operations department, but one of the most important steps I had to take was to find the right person to lead our organization. I believe — this is my view of the role ownership should play in sports, and certainly in terms of basketball —the ownership is responsible for hiring the right person to lead the basketball team and then should step to the side and allow the basketball people to do their work. If we pick the wrong person it can take years to recover. So we needed to get this right."

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:32 pm 
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You buy all of that LTG?

seems a bit much to me like they are stretching things to justify keeping Pax on in some role.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:38 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
You buy all of that LTG?

seems a bit much to me like they are stretching things to justify keeping Pax on in some role.


Cowley said it was true. Plus Paxson looked like the job was killing him.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire GarPax
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:56 am 
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RFDC wrote:
You buy all of that LTG?

seems a bit much to me like they are stretching things to justify keeping Pax on in some role.


I actually think it is and suggested it a little earlier. If you look at how Reinsdorf operates he rarely fires the favorite son types. They tend to leave on their own. Schueler,Krause, Kenny, Pax.

He allows them to write their own ticket. In addition is the fact that the information was leaked about 2 months ago. I never strongly believed that they would fire Paxson but I do believe that Reinsdorf was placing pressure on Paxson to improve the team.

I thought that he may have pushed because of declining attendance but that was probably wrong. If he was it was probably not to the point where he would be whacked.

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