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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 10:55 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Well, we are evil and racist, the sausage has to get made. We're not the ones who sprung a plague on the world, though. That was Evil Racists East.


Evil and racist compared to what? Where has this utopian society existed where every person had exactly equal opportunity? That hasn't even existed in countries where race wasn't a factor. To say we are irredeemably racist is some stupid talking point developed by someone privileged enough to do "scholarship" for money. It's mostly divisive half truths that doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.


When racial thoughts dominate a person's psyche, that person cannot function up to his or her potential. I also think race baiting itself is pretty much a form of bullying where someone deliberately puts another person on the defensive.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 10:56 am 
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Nardi wrote:

Oh wow, so HARDLINE of the USA to not do business with Huawei. I'm sure if you stopped buying Junkers planes in 1936 there would've been no WWII right? That definitely wouldn't be appeasement to make some half-hearted trade deal as opposed to an actual blockade or military intervention.

Eventually China's rise will become intolerable. They'll do something we cannot abide, my guess is it happens in Hong Kong but they've got enough state media in the west who genuinely believe that "Hong Kong is China" that maybe even that can be forgiven. Taiwan certainly would start a war, they wont submit under any circumstances. They'd sooner die.

But it wont be another ten or so years before China thinks they are capable of taking Taiwan, and by then the power disparity will have narrowed and we'll have a real fight on our hands.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:12 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think that's true either. He at least attempted to address the trade imbalances and intellectual property theft that Regular Reader will be voting for continuing.

Well either it was a bad faith effort or an incompetent effort because right now China basically only has Taiwan, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and Hong Kong standing up to them. They are winning, we are losing. Trump made China a central campaign issue and is being resoundingly defeated, I cant tell whether its on purpose or not...but I dont care.


I think that it was that way but I do think that it is changing the other way around with this deliberate attack on the populations and economies of the other countries in the world. And I also think that it is a bottoms up change namely being driven by everyday people in these countries. Trump is for sure the only American president who exposed China for the monster that it is and his trade war with them was proving successful before they attacked with that China virus.

I was talking to some buddies at the golf course yesterday about this and one of my points was that I think that we should start checking the labels on products and not buy them if China made them. And to also write or talk to store managers about not going to buy those China made products.

A guy in this discussion argued that people won't do this because the China made stuff will be cheaper. But I'm not so sure. Not when people believe that a war exists between the US and the rest of the world and China. We have now lost a lot of American citizens because of CHINA, more than the number lost in several US wars combined. American citizens should not be angry of each other, they should be pissed off all right, but direct their anger at China.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:40 am 
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The Hawk wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Well, we are evil and racist, the sausage has to get made. We're not the ones who sprung a plague on the world, though. That was Evil Racists East.


Evil and racist compared to what? Where has this utopian society existed where every person had exactly equal opportunity? That hasn't even existed in countries where race wasn't a factor. To say we are irredeemably racist is some stupid talking point developed by someone privileged enough to do "scholarship" for money. It's mostly divisive half truths that doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.


When racial thoughts dominate a person's psyche, that person cannot function up to his or her potential. I also think race baiting itself is pretty much a form of bullying where someone deliberately puts another person on the defensive.

Maybe you should have a sit down down with WFR and teach him to be a better person. Oh wait......

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:40 am 
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The Hawk wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think that's true either. He at least attempted to address the trade imbalances and intellectual property theft that Regular Reader will be voting for continuing.

Well either it was a bad faith effort or an incompetent effort because right now China basically only has Taiwan, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and Hong Kong standing up to them. They are winning, we are losing. Trump made China a central campaign issue and is being resoundingly defeated, I cant tell whether its on purpose or not...but I dont care.


I think that it was that way but I do think that it is changing the other way around with this deliberate attack on the populations and economies of the other countries in the world. And I also think that it is a bottoms up change namely being driven by everyday people in these countries. Trump is for sure the only American president who exposed China for the monster that it is and his trade war with them was proving successful before they attacked with that China virus.

I was talking to some buddies at the golf course yesterday about this and one of my points was that I think that we should start checking the labels on products and not buy them if China made them. And to also write or talk to store managers about not going to buy those China made products.

A guy in this discussion argued that people won't do this because the China made stuff will be cheaper. But I'm not so sure. Not when people believe that a war exists between the US and the rest of the world and China. We have now lost a lot of American citizens because of CHINA, more than the number lost in several US wars combined. American citizens should not be angry of each other, they should be pissed off all right, but direct their anger at China.

Were these golf buddies the 100 year olds or the 110 year olds?

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:43 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
The USA is just too divided and cowardly to properly confront China.

We don't have the means we had 4 months ago. We tapped out when the bat cough showed up. Hell, I tapped out. I see no way we can properly deal with them at this point. We're cooked. Just going to have to eat the Chinese shit sandwich from here on out.

Militarily the USA & Allies shits all over China. Its not even close, its so un-close that there wont even be a military confrontation because China has to submit to whatever demands are posed to them because even they know they are fucked.

But nobody can recognize the threat other than Taiwan and Japan. Now apparently Australia has taken notice, I'm guessing Singapore will soon. I really despise pop culture references, but its a lot easier to take Mordor seriously when you're in Gondor just watching the sky turn and orcs romping around everywhere.

The USA and Europe? Soft and weak. Europe doubly so than the USA, maybe the French will get fed up soon but the UK is even more pathetic than the USA from a foreign policy perspective.


Australia realizes it but I dont think there is much they can do. China owns a lot of the country. The Aussies sold out to China. They sold the fucking Port of Darwin to them. During the last drought they couldnt get water for themselves or the fires but the Chinese were allowed to mine water and send it home since they ruined their own water supply. They are buying land and farms left and right. They have sold out so bad that in the end the may be forced to against us.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:49 am 
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The Man wrote:

Australia realizes it but I dont think there is much they can do. China owns a lot of the country. The Aussies sold out to China. They sold the fucking Port of Darwin to them. During the last drought they couldnt get water for themselves or the fires but the Chinese were allowed to mine water and send it home since they ruined their own water supply. They are buying land and farms left and right. They have sold out so bad that in the end the may be forced to against us.

Australia still buys our weapons and houses a few thousand American troops. There is no real talk in Australia of cutting off the USA while there is serious discussions about just abandoning their entire relationship with China and accepting the economic hit.

We of course will do nothing to support them in this.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:29 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
The Man wrote:

Australia realizes it but I dont think there is much they can do. China owns a lot of the country. The Aussies sold out to China. They sold the fucking Port of Darwin to them. During the last drought they couldnt get water for themselves or the fires but the Chinese were allowed to mine water and send it home since they ruined their own water supply. They are buying land and farms left and right. They have sold out so bad that in the end the may be forced to against us.

Australia still buys our weapons and houses a few thousand American troops. There is no real talk in Australia of cutting off the USA while there is serious discussions about just abandoning their entire relationship with China and accepting the economic hit.

We of course will do nothing to support them in this.

How can we support them? With our good looks? We're broke as shit and too busy scratching our own eyes out. What the latest way in which to destroy ourselves? Sue ourselves. It's becoming more of a shitshow every day.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:45 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
How can we support them? With our good looks? We're broke as shit and too busy scratching our own eyes out. What the latest way in which to destroy ourselves? Sue ourselves. It's becoming more of a shitshow every day.

Money and arms. The American population is useless sacks of obese entitled shits true, but the USA sure does have a lot of guns and money. America could easily be Australia's #1 trading partner, it wouldn't even cost that much. Then just give them twice as many F-35's as they've already ordered and subsidize the cost. Throw a few P-8's in there too. On the house.

There ya go, plenty of support and a clear sign that we are taking their side against China. Whatever economic uncertainty they incur going after China we'll help shoulder. This is how we used to do business with our allies.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:12 pm 
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Antarctica wrote:
obese entitled shits ... guns and money

Dad, get me out of this

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 10:58 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Nardi wrote:
How can we support them? With our good looks? We're broke as shit and too busy scratching our own eyes out. What the latest way in which to destroy ourselves? Sue ourselves. It's becoming more of a shitshow every day.

Money and arms. The American population is useless sacks of obese entitled shits true, but the USA sure does have a lot of guns and money. America could easily be Australia's #1 trading partner, it wouldn't even cost that much. Then just give them twice as many F-35's as they've already ordered and subsidize the cost. Throw a few P-8's in there too. On the house.

There ya go, plenty of support and a clear sign that we are taking their side against China. Whatever economic uncertainty they incur going after China we'll help shoulder. This is how we used to do business with our allies.


That's also correct. We need to do the same thing in South America and Mexico.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:48 am 
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What's playing out right now in Australia is pretty remarkable.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:51 am 
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A growing sentiment among Australians is an unwillingness to "follow" the USA into anything. It may be the first sign of the world moving on from the American Empire. The bloated, broken superpower is left to collapse onto itself. The final global abandonment of a completely irredeemable shithole.

Cant come soon enough, tbh.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:12 am 
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Ways to make China pay for COVID-19
https://www.aei.org/op-eds/how-to-make- ... -covid-19/


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:39 am 
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Its all not enough. The solutions he proposes are to sue them or seize Chinese assets in the USA. Then some more tariffs. Its just more economic trade war strategics.

In the age where everything people dont like is "literally Hitler" we finally have arrived at the actual, literal, reincarnation of the amoral menace to world peace. The true successor state to the USSR, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. We know none of this will work, they will laugh off anything that wielded against them that isn't force of arms. There are three options: war, blockade or capitulation. The third option being all-encompassing to anything that isn't the first two.

And to invite capitulation and appeasement we only strengthen the inevitability of war. Every single lesson of history tells us this. China's amorality exceeds that of even the Khrushchev Soviet Union post-destalinificaiton. They aren't going to stop because we seize their money or confiscate their treasury bonds. Right now Hong Kong lies in the balance. Within the next five years it will be Taiwan. Then Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines. Then Australia, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand. Anyone who denies this or thinks its ludicrous has no concept of historical precedent. Every day we waste between now and accepting the final, correct course of action costs entire countries their sovereign existence and countless lives.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:41 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Its all not enough. The solutions he proposes are to sue them or seize Chinese assets in the USA. Then some more tariffs. Its just more economic trade war strategics.

In the age where everything people dont like is "literally Hitler" we finally have arrived at the actual, literal, reincarnation of the amoral menace to world peace. The true successor state to the USSR, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. We know none of this will work, they will laugh off anything that wielded against them that isn't force of arms. There are three options: war, blockade or capitulation. The third option being all-encompassing to anything that isn't the first two.

And to invite capitulation and appeasement we only strengthen the inevitability of war. Every single lesson of history tells us this. China's amorality exceeds that of even the Khrushchev Soviet Union post-destalinificaiton. They aren't going to stop because we seize their money or confiscate their treasury bonds. Right now Hong Kong lies in the balance. Within the next five years it will be Taiwan. Then Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines. Then Australia, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand. Anyone who denies this or thinks its ludicrous has no concept of historical precedent. Every day we waste between now and accepting the final, correct course of action costs entire countries their sovereign existence and countless lives.

Also, seize assets across the world, UNDER THE PROTECTION of the US. That's pretty close to a declaration of war.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:00 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Its all not enough. The solutions he proposes are to sue them or seize Chinese assets in the USA. Then some more tariffs. Its just more economic trade war strategics.

In the age where everything people dont like is "literally Hitler" we finally have arrived at the actual, literal, reincarnation of the amoral menace to world peace. The true successor state to the USSR, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. We know none of this will work, they will laugh off anything that wielded against them that isn't force of arms. There are three options: war, blockade or capitulation. The third option being all-encompassing to anything that isn't the first two.

And to invite capitulation and appeasement we only strengthen the inevitability of war. Every single lesson of history tells us this. China's amorality exceeds that of even the Khrushchev Soviet Union post-destalinificaiton. They aren't going to stop because we seize their money or confiscate their treasury bonds. Right now Hong Kong lies in the balance. Within the next five years it will be Taiwan. Then Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines. Then Australia, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand. Anyone who denies this or thinks its ludicrous has no concept of historical precedent. Every day we waste between now and accepting the final, correct course of action costs entire countries their sovereign existence and countless lives.

Also, seize assets across the world, UNDER THE PROTECTION of the US. That's pretty close to a declaration of war.

It will at least draw the battle lines. Countries that refuse aligning with China and countries that dont aligning with the "opposition".

Fact is, the USA isn't even opposed to China. The only countries really standing against the PRC are Taiwan and Hong Kong. Japan, South Korea and Australia seem poised to take the same stance in the next twelve months. The USA just isn't close to that position, with a current leader who is horribly weak and an opposition who is even weaker. There is no Churchillian figure waiting in the wings that I can see. The way Britain mobilized its immense, yet declining, resources into one last grand struggle to rid the world of Nazism (sealing its fate in the process) seems unlikely to repeat itself in the USA. There will be no positive last chapter of the American Empire.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:05 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Antarctica wrote:
Its all not enough. The solutions he proposes are to sue them or seize Chinese assets in the USA. Then some more tariffs. Its just more economic trade war strategics.

In the age where everything people dont like is "literally Hitler" we finally have arrived at the actual, literal, reincarnation of the amoral menace to world peace. The true successor state to the USSR, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. We know none of this will work, they will laugh off anything that wielded against them that isn't force of arms. There are three options: war, blockade or capitulation. The third option being all-encompassing to anything that isn't the first two.

And to invite capitulation and appeasement we only strengthen the inevitability of war. Every single lesson of history tells us this. China's amorality exceeds that of even the Khrushchev Soviet Union post-destalinificaiton. They aren't going to stop because we seize their money or confiscate their treasury bonds. Right now Hong Kong lies in the balance. Within the next five years it will be Taiwan. Then Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines. Then Australia, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand. Anyone who denies this or thinks its ludicrous has no concept of historical precedent. Every day we waste between now and accepting the final, correct course of action costs entire countries their sovereign existence and countless lives.

Also, seize assets across the world, UNDER THE PROTECTION of the US. That's pretty close to a declaration of war.

It will at least draw the battle lines. Countries that refuse aligning with China and countries that dont aligning with the "opposition".

Fact is, the USA isn't even opposed to China. The only countries really standing against the PRC are Taiwan and Hong Kong. Japan, South Korea and Australia seem poised to take the same stance in the next twelve months. The USA just isn't close to that position, with a current leader who is horribly weak and an opposition who is even weaker. There is no Churchillian figure waiting in the wings that I can see. The way Britain mobilized its immense, yet declining, resources into one last grand struggle to rid the world of Nazism (sealing its fate in the process) seems unlikely to repeat itself in the USA. There will be no positive last chapter of the American Empire.

I'm giving you an opportunity to look at other ways to deal with China other than blockading them and starving them. Which of course is unrealistic. Now given the opportunity to look at realistic solutions, you dismiss them also. It shows your posts are nothing but you venting.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:22 am 
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Those ways just wont work. They dont speak that language, they see it as a sign of weakness and cause to further press the issue. What are you going to do with the PLA is in Hong Kong?


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:24 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
Those ways just wont work. They dont speak that language, they see it as a sign of weakness and cause to further press the issue. What are you going to do with the PLA is in Hong Kong?

OK, man. Carry on with the bombing and the blockades and shit.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:55 am 
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See how far your strongly worded letters gets you, Neville.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:16 am 
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Antarctica wrote:
See how far your strongly worded letters gets you, Neville.

Countries seizing assets around the world under the protection of the United States is NOT a strongly worded letter.

You think leadership in Africa don't want their ports back? Their property back? Their motherfucking dignity back?


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:20 am 
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:45 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/19/what-u-s-national-strategy-should-look-like-in-the-wake-of-coronavirus/#.XsQCjvZd2C1.twitter

Very detailed. It put in perspective soft power and sharp power. As days go by, I learn just how many really good options there are to stick it up their ass. I'm much more optimistic that they can't just roll over on us.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:56 am 
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The New York Times is just a mess right now. There is no where you can get facts anymore.

Quote:
Senior Trump administration officials have pushed American spy agencies to hunt for evidence to support an unsubstantiated theory that a government laboratory in Wuhan, China, was the origin of the coronavirus outbreak, according to current and former American officials. The effort comes as President Trump escalates a public campaign to blame China for the pandemic.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/us/p ... china.html

The entire article is just an attack on Trump. Don't you want to know where the virus came from? It's "unsubstantiated" because we don't know yet, which is the point of the investigation. This is treason to do propaganda for China because they dislike a sitting president. It's concerning when half the country trusts a repressive dictatorship over the president.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:18 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/19/what-u-s-national-strategy-should-look-like-in-the-wake-of-coronavirus/#.XsQCjvZd2C1.twitter

Very detailed. It put in perspective soft power and sharp power. As days go by, I learn just how many really good options there are to stick it up their ass. I'm much more optimistic that they can't just roll over on us.


Odd how they only found blame in Carter, Clinton and Obama administrations for the embrace and normalization of relations with China but ignore any republican president' s dealings with China, beginning most notably with their guy Nixon.

And it's utterly ridiculous that these guys sound the alarm bells about deceit, denial and deflection, especially how two of them were front and center for Iran Contra. And creating the mountain of debt that they lied about.

More tea party bullshit.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:22 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/19/what-u-s-national-strategy-should-look-like-in-the-wake-of-coronavirus/#.XsQCjvZd2C1.twitter

Very detailed. It put in perspective soft power and sharp power. As days go by, I learn just how many really good options there are to stick it up their ass. I'm much more optimistic that they can't just roll over on us.


Odd how they only found blame in Carter, Clinton and Obama administrations for the embrace and normalization of relations with China but ignore any republican president' s dealings with China, beginning most notably with their guy Nixon.

And it's utterly ridiculous that these guys sound the alarm bells about deceit, denial and deflection, especially how two of them were front and center for Iran Contra. And creating the mountain of debt that they lied about.

More tea party bullshit.

yep....our mistakes with China are bi-partisan.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:26 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/19/what-u-s-national-strategy-should-look-like-in-the-wake-of-coronavirus/#.XsQCjvZd2C1.twitter

Very detailed. It put in perspective soft power and sharp power. As days go by, I learn just how many really good options there are to stick it up their ass. I'm much more optimistic that they can't just roll over on us.


Odd how they only found blame in Carter, Clinton and Obama administrations for the embrace and normalization of relations with China but ignore any republican president' s dealings with China, beginning most notably with their guy Nixon.

And it's utterly ridiculous that these guys sound the alarm bells about deceit, denial and deflection, especially how two of them were front and center for Iran Contra. And creating the mountain of debt that they lied about.

More tea party bullshit.

yep....our mistakes with China are bi-partisan.

It's really not that hard to acknowledge that reality.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:28 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The New York Times is just a mess right now. There is no where you can get facts anymore.


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Regular Reader wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/19/what-u-s-national-strategy-should-look-like-in-the-wake-of-coronavirus/#.XsQCjvZd2C1.twitter

Very detailed. It put in perspective soft power and sharp power. As days go by, I learn just how many really good options there are to stick it up their ass. I'm much more optimistic that they can't just roll over on us.


Odd how they only found blame in Carter, Clinton and Obama administrations for the embrace and normalization of relations with China but ignore any republican president' s dealings with China, beginning most notably with their guy Nixon.

And it's utterly ridiculous that these guys sound the alarm bells about deceit, denial and deflection, especially how two of them were front and center for Iran Contra. And creating the mountain of debt that they lied about.

More tea party bullshit.

yep....our mistakes with China are bi-partisan.

It's really not that hard to acknowledge that reality.

I've been pretty consistent on this one. Take away the myths that each party carries on their brand....most times they act as one elite ruling class. Any time a bi-partisan effort sweeps through....it's usually bad. It starts with the corporate bail out programs....awful. Our dependence from China is a huge one....and a long-running problem. I agree, though, tough on China is something the GOP likes to try and sell....I don't buy it at all.

I'm not going to go all "Continent" here....but we do need to do something about China. it's not a short term fix at all. Our elite rulers don't have the balls...including our current President.

_________________
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
brick (/brik/) verb
1. block or enclose with a wall of bricks
2. Proper response would be to ask an endless series of follow ups until the person regrets having spoken to you in the first place.


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