veganfan21 wrote:
Ron Wolfley wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Ron Wolfley wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Well he's generally regarded as a turnstile and Kobe's game is indicative of that. Kobe is a great scorer but he's not the first - plenty of people can put the ball in the bucket, but no one in however many years put up as much as Kobe did. Not the 7 foot Shaq who in his prime could dunk on Godzilla at will, not Hakeem, not Jordan, not LBJ, etc. It's still basketball man - just because you can score doesn't mean putting up 81 is still conceivable. Especially when you're average height for the NBA (6'6 isn't anything special). Why can Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier hound Kobe into 9-31 shooting nights for 37 points while 6-8 Jalen Rose gets 81 dropped on his head? Because he sucks and never tried hard on defense.
My bias here in case it isn't obvious is defense. If you don't try hard on D then I don't give a shit about you. Rose was in that category for me. No value add if you can score 21 in a breeze but your guy hits you up for 25 on 70% shooting.
Stop that nonsense. 81 all on Jalen? We say that because Jalen is on ESPN. Lazy narrative. Nobody remembers the other players on the 27-55 Toronto Raptors. Watch the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9NILK4OXpoP.S. Kobe put up 45 against Battier that same year and Battier fouled out
Kobe put up 50 against Iguodala shooting 66% a few weeks prior to his 81 performance.
Are you digging into 2006 regular season box scores? That's genuinely awesome.
Look, we started this discussion about Jones vs Rose and I told y'all that Jones was the more complete players. Regular and advanced stats show that.
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https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... r__playersNo question Jones is the better player and the better building block, to me.
I'm actually going to be more charitable than others about rose here. When he was Indiana he was an x factor. He had a skill set no one else on that team had. Because the team filled with veteran players who mostly played defense Rose's considerable deficiencies were covered up. Put Jones on that team over Rose and they beat the bulls in 98
The video is telling. Lazy people use the lazy narrative of Kobe's 81 game when talking about Jalen's defense.
Jalen had a good reputation on defense as a Pacer. He held his own. He was capable.
Okay so if you want to go there, here we go:
- it's lazy to omit Jalen's time in Denver, Toronto, Chicago, etc., and only focus on Indiana
- it's lazy to miss that Indiana's defense was anchored by elite interior defenders Derrick McKey, Dale and Antonio Davis, not to mention 7'4 Rik Smits, which made up for poor perimeter defense from Miller and Rose
- it's lazy and misleading to not refer to Rose's stats: in advanced metrics,if you look at the link you'll see that not only does Rose pale in comparison to Eddie Jones in advanced defense metrics, he's actually a lot closer to defensive wizard Eddie Curry than he is to a peer like Jones
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... r__playersSo you're comparing Jalen Rose to Eddy Curry?
I think it's hard to measure defensive impact using analytics. To me, eye test is most important.
Jones was a great defender. But he lacked ability in other areas, choked in many playoff games, and was vastly overpaid during his Miami days. I find it funny both the Lakers and Heat won championships after trading Jones away.
Rose's job on the Bulls was to shoulder the scoring load on a young team. Cartwright played him a shit ton of minutes every night. His focus was offense and being a consistent scorer. It's difficult to play consistent defense when you're the 1st and 2nd option on offense.
I'll be honest, the moment you brought up Kobe's 81 game, I gave up. It's a cheap lazy narrative. You seem like a good dude though. No hard feelings. You got Jones. I got Rose. If 2K still has blacktop, I'll beat your ass anytime
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