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conns7901
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 11:04 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
The owners are screwing minor leaguers and the teams over relatively small end money in a particularly short sided way. And that's after by most accounts, several strong revenue and profitable years. And with franchise values that have doubled and tripled over the last decade. They were so awash in cash that most teams are in palatial spring training homes. For practice. Practice?!? But we're supposed to believe the woe is me pablum they're offering up now? Please.

So if they take a small haircut this year, long term I don't see this wrecking their balance sheets.



That's also why killing a season is going to hurt the players more than it hurts the owners.

Agreed. And it's why the owners' actions are so cynical and craven imho.


One thing I have noticed is very few people under 30 seem to really give a shit if they play. That is not good for the long term health of the sport.

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Nardi
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 11:22 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
The owners are screwing minor leaguers and the teams over relatively small end money in a particularly short sided way. And that's after by most accounts, several strong revenue and profitable years. And with franchise values that have doubled and tripled over the last decade. They were so awash in cash that most teams are in palatial spring training homes. For practice. Practice?!? But we're supposed to believe the woe is me pablum they're offering up now? Please.

So if they take a small haircut this year, long term I don't see this wrecking their balance sheets.



That's also why killing a season is going to hurt the players more than it hurts the owners.

Agreed. And it's why the owners' actions are so cynical and craven imho.

It's a pisspoor attempt at union busting. What happens now is owners will cave and cry poor all the way through 2021.
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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 9:14 pm 
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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 9:20 pm 
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:51 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:

:lol: I know this will sound pro owners but to say "Hey owners, how about losing MORE money with this proposal?" is worse than the owners wanting to factor in the ban on fans in the stands.

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Nardi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:

:lol: I know this will sound pro owners but to say "Hey owners, how about losing MORE money with this proposal?" is worse than the owners wanting to factor in the ban on fans in the stands.

If owners can't afford it, they should sell their teams.

I wish America would notice how MLB players dealt with income inequity.

They unionized. They got strong. They stayed strong. Did it hurt owners through all these years?

Nope
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:59 am 
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Nardi wrote:
If owners can't afford it, they should sell their teams.
Stop interfering with family owned businesses.

Whether they make $10,000 a year or $100 million a year a business isn't going to open up knowing it would lose less money staying closed for a while.

Nardi wrote:
I wish America would notice how MLB players dealt with income inequity.

They unionized. They got strong. They stayed strong. Did it hurt owners through all these years?

Nope
Yup. Worked well for the state of Illinois and their unions too!

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Nardi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:28 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
If owners can't afford it, they should sell their teams.
Stop interfering with family owned businesses.

Whether they make $10,000 a year or $100 million a year a business isn't going to open up knowing it would lose less money staying closed for a while.

Nardi wrote:
I wish America would notice how MLB players dealt with income inequity.

They unionized. They got strong. They stayed strong. Did it hurt owners through all these years?

Nope
Yup. Worked well for the state of Illinois and their unions too!

I misspoke. And it's an important misspeak. Private Sector unions. Public sector unions are an atrocity.
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:29 am 
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Nardi wrote:
I misspoke. And it's an important misspeak. Private Sector unions. Public sector unions are an atrocity.
Ok then. It worked out great for the Big 3 automakers!

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Nardi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:10 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
I misspoke. And it's an important misspeak. Private Sector unions. Public sector unions are an atrocity.
Ok then. It worked out great for the Big 3 automakers!

Right to work laws and NAFTA killed it all. The pornographic income inequality all stems from those two things.
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conns7901
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:18 am 
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Shocking that Brick is pro owner.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:23 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Shocking that Brick is pro owner.
I'm being a realist. The players expect to be paid the exact same amount of money per game that they would get if fans were in the stadium or not. I don't blame them for wanting that but let's not act like this is a Wal-Mart worker fighting for dental benefits.

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Nardi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:30 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Shocking that Brick is pro owner.
I'm being a realist. The players expect to be paid the exact same amount of money per game that they would get if fans were in the stadium or not. I don't blame them for wanting that but let's not act like this is a Wal-Mart worker fighting for dental benefits.

They have a contract. I hear all the time how business owners take all the risk in their ventures and that's why they get the lion's share of the profits.

Welp....risk time.
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:32 am 
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Nardi wrote:
They have a contract. I hear all the time how business owners take all the risk in their ventures and that's why they get the lion's share of the profits.
They do have a contract. That contract lets them not play games instead of lose a ton of money. The owners aren't violating any contract if they cancel the games because fans can't be there.

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conns7901
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:37 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Shocking that Brick is pro owner.
I'm being a realist. The players expect to be paid the exact same amount of money per game that they would get if fans were in the stadium or not. I don't blame them for wanting that but let's not act like this is a Wal-Mart worker fighting for dental benefits.


The players agreed to prorate. The owners seemed to have "forgot" to include language if fans were not allowed. Now they want to do yet another deal.

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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Nardi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:50 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
They have a contract. I hear all the time how business owners take all the risk in their ventures and that's why they get the lion's share of the profits.
They do have a contract. That contract lets them not play games instead of lose a ton of money. The owners aren't violating any contract if they cancel the games because fans can't be there.


I'm sorry players hold all the cards. But then again, they are the talent. They are who people come to see. It's THEIR game. If owners don't like it, sell. Rich guys will be lining up at the door to buy.
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:51 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Shocking that Brick is pro owner.
I'm being a realist. The players expect to be paid the exact same amount of money per game that they would get if fans were in the stadium or not. I don't blame them for wanting that but let's not act like this is a Wal-Mart worker fighting for dental benefits.


The players agreed to prorate. The owners seemed to have "forgot" to include language if fans were not allowed. Now they want to do yet another deal.

Yup. Prorated salary of 0 games is $0.

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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:52 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
They have a contract. I hear all the time how business owners take all the risk in their ventures and that's why they get the lion's share of the profits.
They do have a contract. That contract lets them not play games instead of lose a ton of money. The owners aren't violating any contract if they cancel the games because fans can't be there.


I'm sorry players hold all the cards. But then again, they are the talent. They are who people come to see. It's THEIR game. If owners don't like it, sell. Rich guys will be lining up at the door to buy.
No. The owners can cancel the season and start fresh in 2021.

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Nardi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:58 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Shocking that Brick is pro owner.
I'm being a realist. The players expect to be paid the exact same amount of money per game that they would get if fans were in the stadium or not. I don't blame them for wanting that but let's not act like this is a Wal-Mart worker fighting for dental benefits.


The players agreed to prorate. The owners seemed to have "forgot" to include language if fans were not allowed. Now they want to do yet another deal.

Yup. Prorated salary of 0 games is $0.

Players will be fine. What REALLY pisses you of is that it's inevitable owners will cave.
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:00 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Shocking that Brick is pro owner.
I'm being a realist. The players expect to be paid the exact same amount of money per game that they would get if fans were in the stadium or not. I don't blame them for wanting that but let's not act like this is a Wal-Mart worker fighting for dental benefits.


The players agreed to prorate. The owners seemed to have "forgot" to include language if fans were not allowed. Now they want to do yet another deal.

Yup. Prorated salary of 0 games is $0.

Players will be fine. What REALLY pisses you of is that it's inevitable owners will cave.

Not really. I'll applaud the players for calling their bluff.

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Kirkwood
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:01 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
The owners are screwing minor leaguers and the teams over relatively small end money in a particularly short sided way. And that's after by most accounts, several strong revenue and profitable years. And with franchise values that have doubled and tripled over the last decade. They were so awash in cash that most teams are in palatial spring training homes. For practice. Practice?!? But we're supposed to believe the woe is me pablum they're offering up now? Please.

So if they take a small haircut this year, long term I don't see this wrecking their balance sheets.



That's also why killing a season is going to hurt the players more than it hurts the owners.

Agreed. And it's why the owners' actions are so cynical and craven imho.


One thing I have noticed is very few people under 30 seem to really give a shit if they play. That is not good for the long term health of the sport.

Yup. Haven't any of my friends say they miss baseball. Keep hearing how football hopefully will be ready and the NHL playoffs are wild.
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Nardi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:03 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
The owners are screwing minor leaguers and the teams over relatively small end money in a particularly short sided way. And that's after by most accounts, several strong revenue and profitable years. And with franchise values that have doubled and tripled over the last decade. They were so awash in cash that most teams are in palatial spring training homes. For practice. Practice?!? But we're supposed to believe the woe is me pablum they're offering up now? Please.

So if they take a small haircut this year, long term I don't see this wrecking their balance sheets.



That's also why killing a season is going to hurt the players more than it hurts the owners.

Agreed. And it's why the owners' actions are so cynical and craven imho.


One thing I have noticed is very few people under 30 seem to really give a shit if they play. That is not good for the long term health of the sport.

Yup. Haven't any of my friends say they miss baseball.

I miss it less now than in April. Out of sight, out of mind. THIS is why owners will cave.
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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:03 pm 
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Nardi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:09 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:

They should all go to court and become free agents.
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conns7901
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:39 pm 
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Owners are looking to keep their profits the same as last year.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ml ... 538twitter

To break even under the assumptions we’ve laid out, teams would only have to reduce MLB player costs to 47 percent of their normal full-season amounts. Instead, the owners have advanced plans that would cut salaries down to a far smaller share. Doing a rough analysis using last year’s salaries and the league’s proposed reduction scale (according to Passan and Jesse Rogers), players would make only 48 percent of their prorated salaries under the owners’ sliding-scale proposal — or just 24 percent of their normal, full-season salaries.

Plug that into the ledgers above, and cutting the salaries down to 24 percent of usual instead of half, would bring costs down to $3.1 billion … resulting in a net operating income of $1.1 billion, or almost exactly what Forbes estimated MLB made across last year in a full season.

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:08 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Owners are looking to keep their profits the same as last year.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ml ... 538twitter

To break even under the assumptions we’ve laid out, teams would only have to reduce MLB player costs to 47 percent of their normal full-season amounts. Instead, the owners have advanced plans that would cut salaries down to a far smaller share. Doing a rough analysis using last year’s salaries and the league’s proposed reduction scale (according to Passan and Jesse Rogers), players would make only 48 percent of their prorated salaries under the owners’ sliding-scale proposal — or just 24 percent of their normal, full-season salaries.

Plug that into the ledgers above, and cutting the salaries down to 24 percent of usual instead of half, would bring costs down to $3.1 billion … resulting in a net operating income of $1.1 billion, or almost exactly what Forbes estimated MLB made across last year in a full season.

Of course the owners know they won't ever get that either.

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Jaw Breaker
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:13 pm 
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I think the season will be canceled.

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:15 pm 
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:06 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:

Nice to see owners giving concessions.

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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:44 pm 
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I still think that expansion to 32 teams in 2024 is the answer. They can ask players making over $10m to deferhalf the overage and get paid back in full out of expansion fees. The union gets 80 more guys and a permanent DH., the minor leagues get to save 8 more teams (go to 128).

The owners get cash flow, realignment into conferences, the full expansion fees minus the interest on the deferrals, and a reason to go to a full 16 team playoff like the NBA.

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