those moves were made because the towns were broke, i dont think it's a good comparison. what some protestors want is a different model of policing

"Defund the Police" is a pretty poor way to convey that though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

is it though? i dont think we're talking about it if protestors are shouting "reform police".... that chant hasnt worked. so functionally no it is clumsy... but as far as bringing attention to the cause, it's working

Camden was as well. They WANTED to hire more police but couldn't afford it.

I'm perfectly fine with rule changes. I'd be really interested to see an experiment where policing was eliminated.

However, exchanging one police force for another and telling me you created something new is intellectually insulting.

"Look, OUR police force now has more electrolytes!"

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I’m the end the citizens of a municipality should get the policing they desire. Whether the government or union allow them to is the barrier.

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Elections have consequences.

The reaction to that phrase seems to be the idea that the police won't exist due to lack of funding. Even the explanation is basically about replacing the police with something that is basically the police.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Defunding the police is a stupid idea.

Taking a good chunk of the funds currently allocated for guns, riot gear, and humvees then using those funds for better education and training purposes for the officers would seem to be a smarter way to spend those dollars.

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I've long believed we could get along just fine without the type of policing we've had during all of our lives. I know Dennis and I argued about it here quite awhile ago and he found the idea simply preposterous.

I'll say this though: the best time to implement such a plan probably isn't in the immediate aftermath of riots that destroyed complete city blocks in major urban centers.

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Freedom is our Strength.

I'm not sure that police can be "re-trained". These are people with emotions and hard held beliefs. "Re-training" is a form of thought policing. I don't really see how that could work.

I agree completely about the militarization of police forces and how that needs to cease immediately. You saw this weekend right here in Chicago that the police and protesters came to an accommodation where the police did not come in riot gear and did not show an overwhelming presence at the rallies and it worked out just fine.

We have to get past the idea that police officers are warriors who are fighting an enemy in the neighborhoods they patrol. And that paradigm is particularly bad when it's guys who live in Edgebrook or Mt. Greenwood policing Englewood or East Rogers Park.

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Freedom is our Strength.

This is exactly what will happen, but regardless of the Police Unions, they will find a way to blow MORE money / funds on the new police model.

Agreed, though, if they get anywhere near messing with the Police Union...this fight will get really ugly.

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just give police stun guns and let taco bell win the franchise wars. dissenters can live underground.

Doesn't the absence of police equal the explosion/rebirth of the protection rackets.

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Elections have consequences.

Those guys who patrol those neighborhoods, they get shot at a lot? How can you in one part of a single post recognize their humanity, then later in the post dismiss that same humanity by expecting them to not view people in the neighborhoods where they get fucking shot at as the enemy?

I agree with this 100%.

As far as retraining I think the "good cops" would absolutely be fine with it, and there are MANY good cops. There will always be at least a few bad apples that will have to be let go or at the absolute minimum be taken off the streets and put on desk duty.

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Do they though? You seem hyperaware of the disparity between perception and reality when it comes to police killing black people but now you're going to throw out some claptrap about how police are constantly "shot at".

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Freedom is our Strength.

Yeah JORR, cops aren't shot at in Chicago.

Police get shot at more than you think. The whole Breonna Taylor thing happened because the boyfriend opened fire on police, actually managing to hit a cop.

I don’t see a realistic way to protect people and enforce laws without a formal police force. I don’t want anarchy, and I don’t want protection rackets.

I think the Camden model deserves consideration.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

They broke into his apartment!

Even with the surveillance and presence? I would think you'd be against. Is it more it's worth a shot because what we have isn't working?

The thing I liked best about the Camden approach was de escalation. It seems like a much better approach.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

That's not what I asked.

I see honest and uncomfortable conversations are back on the agenda. Is this for real? Because the last time it wasn't. And society hasn't gotten any less thin skinned. Yes, it's uncomfortable to talk about school choice, desegregation, and Grade A education costs with proper facilities. "Taking" money from Naperville and using it in Englewood. "Overpaying" good teachers. It's also uncomfortable to talk about truancy and fatherhood and demanding enthusiasm and involvement about education.

If I was Fox I would have drones and John Walsh ready to host a new reality show over the town after this goes into effect. Ratings would go through the roof.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

THIS

Cook County Sheriffs make me uncomfortable.

Too many bad memories of Dick Elrod's "friends" pulling people over and flashing a badge when i was a kid.

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If I was Fox, I would not have challenged the play where Benny Cunningham dove for the endzone and fumbled the ball out of bounds because the refs were bound to get it wrong upon replay, and they did.

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There was a guy named Dick Elrod? TWO penis jokes in one name?

Anyone who thinks there will an honest appraisal of how this all shakes out is fooling themselves. You have liberals who think Camden NJ is a model society and will clamor to tout how successful it is. People in control are going to juke the stats the way they always do. Even if its an utter disaster enough "evidence" will exist that dedicated people wont have to confront that reality.

Also, it looks New York is headed towards having no police department. They're just taking a different route to get there.

It looks to be a psychological ploy. A rebranding. It's no longer Sugar Crisp. it's Golden Crisp.