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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:38 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Nardi wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I have seen a few articles on the Braves financial results since they are publicly disclosed in Liberty Media’s public filings. As I suspected based on financials, I have reviewed for sports teams in the past, there is a lot of non cash charges for depreciation and amortization. For those not familiar with accounting rules, those non cash charges account for money spent previously on fixed assets and acquisitions. They are often discounted by analysts, but they represent real costs that have already been incurred. With that, here is the last three years:

Revenues (in millions)
2019- 476
2018- 442
2017- 386

Pretax income/loss
2019- (39)
2018- 1
2017- (113)

Income before non cash expenses:
2019- 49
2018- 88
2017- 2

So even if you use the broad metric of income, they are not making that much relative to the value of the franchise, i.e. a very low return on investment. The entire value of these franchises is simply the ability to sell them at a higher price. But on an annual cash flow basis, there is not much there at least with the Braves.

Sell! Many takers


People buy for the ego. Would you invest a million dollars a year to profit 1,000 per year? No.

Whatever makes the worth of the franchise go up 10 fold in 20 years is none of my concern


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:25 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Nardi wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I have seen a few articles on the Braves financial results since they are publicly disclosed in Liberty Media’s public filings. As I suspected based on financials, I have reviewed for sports teams in the past, there is a lot of non cash charges for depreciation and amortization. For those not familiar with accounting rules, those non cash charges account for money spent previously on fixed assets and acquisitions. They are often discounted by analysts, but they represent real costs that have already been incurred. With that, here is the last three years:

Revenues (in millions)
2019- 476
2018- 442
2017- 386

Pretax income/loss
2019- (39)
2018- 1
2017- (113)

Income before non cash expenses:
2019- 49
2018- 88
2017- 2

So even if you use the broad metric of income, they are not making that much relative to the value of the franchise, i.e. a very low return on investment. The entire value of these franchises is simply the ability to sell them at a higher price. But on an annual cash flow basis, there is not much there at least with the Braves.

Sell! Many takers


People buy for the ego. Would you invest a million dollars a year to profit 1,000 per year? No.



Yes..if I could sell it for 15 million a decade later.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:11 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Anyone blaming the players is flat out wrong.

Both are at fault. Why shouldn't the players take a hit for no fans in the stands?


Because they do not get bonuses when revenue goes up more than anticipated.



Exactly. The owners didn't split the 100 mil they each got from the app with the players. But they want the players to share the downside. Ridiculous.

And look, I don't feel sorry for the players. Most of them are asswipes too. But the current situation is 100% the fault of the owners.


Exactly this.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:13 pm 
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If you want to say both are at fault and admit that this is 99% the owner's fault and 1% the players fault, then all right

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:25 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Anyone blaming the players is flat out wrong.

Both are at fault. Why shouldn't the players take a hit for no fans in the stands?

Why shouldn't the players taste the profits when there are MANY fans in the stands? You're arguing for losses to be socialized but profits are OK to be enjoyed primarily by owners.

They do. You think they don't?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:25 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Anyone blaming the players is flat out wrong.

Both are at fault. Why shouldn't the players take a hit for no fans in the stands?


Because they do not get bonuses when revenue goes up more than anticipated.



Exactly. The owners didn't split the 100 mil they each got from the app with the players. But they want the players to share the downside. Ridiculous.

And look, I don't feel sorry for the players. Most of them are asswipes too. But the current situation is 100% the fault of the owners.

Revenue sharing. Do it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:31 pm 
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Why would owners agree to revenue sharing?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:14 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Why would owners agree to revenue sharing?


Cost certainty.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:21 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Why would owners agree to revenue sharing?


Cost certainty.

???

They have cost certainty now. A soft salary cap rarely exceeded and no salary floor.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:26 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Why would owners agree to revenue sharing?


Cost certainty.

???

They have cost certainty now. A soft salary cap rarely exceeded and no salary floor.


Yeah and some say the players are really only making about 40% of total revenue. It has been established it is under 50%.

The only cap the owners would go for is a hard cap with no floor. The soft cap with no floor has worked well for them so far.

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Not over yet.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:27 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Anyone blaming the players is flat out wrong.

Both are at fault. Why shouldn't the players take a hit for no fans in the stands?


When was the last time the owners gave the players a bonus for a great year? How are the players at fault for honoring a deal that both parties agreed to when the pandemic shut the game down?.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:28 pm 
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Can someone please answer why Tony Clark was not fired after getting the union bent over in the last deal?

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:17 pm 
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Not sure, the 2016 deal was about as bad as it gets.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:24 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Can someone please answer why Tony Clark was not fired after getting the union bent over in the last deal?


No salary cap and guaranteed contracts.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:31 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Can someone please answer why Tony Clark was not fired after getting the union bent over in the last deal?


No salary cap and guaranteed contracts.


There is a soft cap in form of luxury tax no one goes over. Wages have dropped and service time manipulation has increased.

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:49 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Can someone please answer why Tony Clark was not fired after getting the union bent over in the last deal?


No salary cap and guaranteed contracts.


There is a soft cap in form of luxury tax no one goes over. Wages have dropped and service time manipulation has increased.


Teams go over it. Service time is what it has always been. There was a shift this last agreement where smarter people started running teams. Time for the players to put smart people in charge.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:56 pm 
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Smart people in charge or owners don't care about winning anymore? Mebbe they never did and I never noticed?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:22 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Smart people in charge or owners don't care about winning anymore? Mebbe they never did and I never noticed?


A lot of owners figured out they can make a lot of money by losing and not spending. The Marlins selling for what they did justifies not trying from a business standpoint.

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:10 am 
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Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Anyone blaming the players is flat out wrong.

Both are at fault. Why shouldn't the players take a hit for no fans in the stands?


When was the last time the owners gave the players a bonus for a great year? How are the players at fault for honoring a deal that both parties agreed to when the pandemic shut the game down?.

The more money that is made the more that is spent. Players make more money now than they did 20 years ago.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:33 pm 
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Heyman is reporting a deal is close, prorated salaries and expanded playoffs.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:50 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Anyone blaming the players is flat out wrong.

Both are at fault. Why shouldn't the players take a hit for no fans in the stands?


When was the last time the owners gave the players a bonus for a great year? How are the players at fault for honoring a deal that both parties agreed to when the pandemic shut the game down?.

The more money that is made the more that is spent. Players make more money now than they did 20 years ago.


Are you sure? I believe that the Yankees are spending less money today than they were a decade ago. I'm pretty sure their franchise value has probably doubled since then and they are getting more tv and ticket revenue. The average MLB career has had a year shaved off of it as well. That's a savings too.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Anyone blaming the players is flat out wrong.

Both are at fault. Why shouldn't the players take a hit for no fans in the stands?


When was the last time the owners gave the players a bonus for a great year? How are the players at fault for honoring a deal that both parties agreed to when the pandemic shut the game down?.

The more money that is made the more that is spent. Players make more money now than they did 20 years ago.


They just spent the last two years with salaries dropping while profits were at record levels.

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:55 pm 
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312player wrote:
2016 was about as bad as it gets.
Yup.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:56 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Heyman is reporting a deal is close, prorated salaries and expanded playoffs.


Good.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:03 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Anyone blaming the players is flat out wrong.

Both are at fault. Why shouldn't the players take a hit for no fans in the stands?


When was the last time the owners gave the players a bonus for a great year? How are the players at fault for honoring a deal that both parties agreed to when the pandemic shut the game down?.

The more money that is made the more that is spent. Players make more money now than they did 20 years ago.


They just spent the last two years with salaries dropping while profits were at record levels.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25715085/mlb-payrolls-dropped-18-million-2018-first-decrease-2010%3fplatform=amp
Quote:
Spending on Major League Baseball payrolls dropped last season for the first time since 2010, an $18 million decrease attributable to drug and domestic violence suspensions and a player retiring at midseason.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:06 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:08 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Anyone blaming the players is flat out wrong.

Both are at fault. Why shouldn't the players take a hit for no fans in the stands?


When was the last time the owners gave the players a bonus for a great year? How are the players at fault for honoring a deal that both parties agreed to when the pandemic shut the game down?.

The more money that is made the more that is spent. Players make more money now than they did 20 years ago.


They just spent the last two years with salaries dropping while profits were at record levels.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25715085/mlb-payrolls-dropped-18-million-2018-first-decrease-2010%3fplatform=amp
Quote:
Spending on Major League Baseball payrolls dropped last season for the first time since 2010, an $18 million decrease attributable to drug and domestic violence suspensions and a player retiring at midseason.


https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/283 ... aight-year

The average salary in Major League Baseball has dropped in consecutive years for the first time since the players' association started keeping records more than a half-century ago.

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Frank Coztansa wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


CDOM wrote:
When this is all over, which is not going to be for a while, Trump will be re-elected President.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:15 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:


Glad the owners caved.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:16 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:21 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/283 ... aight-year

The average salary in Major League Baseball has dropped in consecutive years for the first time since the players' association started keeping records more than a half-century ago.

For the reasons stated.

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