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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:56 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
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JustAGayGuy wrote:
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even though Foles was pretty much just throwing it up for grabs and hoping for the best.

I dont think thats true at all. The only pass where that might have been true, and I still don't think it is, was the Graham reception where it went right thru a corners hands and when Graham caught it he looked surprised.

The TD call that got overturned was the same. As was the Robison touchdown where he was double covered and just made a great play and then turned around. Even the last touchdown he was falling backwards and just chucked it up there though the Bears guy got pretty wide open while it was in the air.


:lol:

This is totally inaccurate. There is extensive analysis available about the Miller TD in which Foles and others breakdown how the Bears diagnosed the defense and how Foles explicitly told Miller that he'd throw it to a specific spot in the endzone if the defense blitzed a certain way. They diagnosed it correctly and executed the play per the plan. He's not just throwing stuff up in the air and hoping it works, backyard football style. That's your boy (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's style.

I'll admit that the Jimmy Graham reception was lucky. Should have been an INT.
Yeah, I'm sure shocked they didn't say "We got lucky on the last touchdown". Just go look at the replay again and how he throws it and how long it hangs in the air and how close the db is until he slips right as he comes into the screen. That's the NFL though. Sometimes it works out. My point is that we'll see how often throws like that work out. One led to an interception. The other should have led to an interception. However, what actually happens matters as we don't have a hypothetical Nick Foles out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:26 am 
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Brick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
JustAGayGuy wrote:
Nagy doesn't seem too committed to Foles next week against Indy.


Uhhhh.....what?

I think Mitch starts Sunday. I think Nagy gives him one more chance to screw it up and let Foles try and be the hero again. That plus the less field time that Foles gets, the more likely he stays healthy.

You can't do that to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky already has to chase the demons of not being Patrick Mahomes. Now you would have every mistake being compared to the great comeback by Foles even though Foles was pretty much just throwing it up for grabs and hoping for the best.

If Foles struggles then you can give (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky another shot.


No, because the season is over if you do that. The team doesn't trust Mitch at this stage. Either give him a game to lose and shut him down if he looks bad, or play Foles and make Mitch the third string.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:35 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
No, because the season is over if you do that. The team doesn't trust Mitch at this stage. Either give him a game to lose and shut him down if he looks bad, or play Foles and make Mitch the third string.

This is a bad take.
If the team doesn't trust mitch then you gotta stick with Foles. Mitch was given game 1 and 2 to "lose" and he didn't only because of two very bad last second plays by the Lions and Giants both. He was given a third chance. In 10 quarters of play he put up 3 good quarters and 7 stinkers. Mitch had a chance to prove he was progressing and he showed clearly he was not progressing. You've seen Mitch's ceiling and its listed by OSHA as a confined space.
The way the team reacted to mitch getting pulled was incredible. Hicks said that even the defense felt the boost.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:45 am 
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Brick wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Brick wrote:
JustAGayGuy wrote:
Brick wrote:
even though Foles was pretty much just throwing it up for grabs and hoping for the best.

I dont think thats true at all. The only pass where that might have been true, and I still don't think it is, was the Graham reception where it went right thru a corners hands and when Graham caught it he looked surprised.

The TD call that got overturned was the same. As was the Robison touchdown where he was double covered and just made a great play and then turned around. Even the last touchdown he was falling backwards and just chucked it up there though the Bears guy got pretty wide open while it was in the air.


:lol:

This is totally inaccurate. There is extensive analysis available about the Miller TD in which Foles and others breakdown how the Bears diagnosed the defense and how Foles explicitly told Miller that he'd throw it to a specific spot in the endzone if the defense blitzed a certain way. They diagnosed it correctly and executed the play per the plan. He's not just throwing stuff up in the air and hoping it works, backyard football style. That's your boy (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's style.

I'll admit that the Jimmy Graham reception was lucky. Should have been an INT.
Yeah, I'm sure shocked they didn't say "We got lucky on the last touchdown". Just go look at the replay again and how he throws it and how long it hangs in the air and how close the db is until he slips right as he comes into the screen. That's the NFL though. Sometimes it works out. My point is that we'll see how often throws like that work out. One led to an interception. The other should have led to an interception. However, what actually happens matters as we don't have a hypothetical Nick Foles out there.



You could have just said you haven't read the breakdown of the play. "Throwing it up there" is correct for the Graham reception. But on this one you're just failing to give Foles credit for knowing where to go with the ball based on what he (correctly) predicted the defense would do

Quote:
"I've spoken with folks in Chicago, here's what happened. It's third and eight, and Nick Foles looks at Anthony Miller and says, 'If it's an all-out blitz, I need you to run to the 'L' in the end zone.' Miller's like, 'What?' Foles goes, 'Run to the 'L' in Atlanta Falcons in the end zone. Just run there and I'll find you. They don't have time to talk about it, he just says, 'Just go there if it's an all-out blitz.'"


https://sports.yahoo.com/story-behind-n ... 42036.html

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:55 pm 
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He was covered until the defender started to slip. That's the NFL though. The margins are small.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:58 pm 
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Brick wrote:
He was covered until the defender started to slip. That's the NFL though. The margins are small.


It was 1 on 1 due to the blitz, which Foles identified before the play even started. Even if he doesn't slip it's a catchable ball. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's throw would have hit the field goal bar.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:00 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Brick wrote:
He was covered until the defender started to slip. That's the NFL though. The margins are small.


It was 1 on 1 due to the blitz, which Foles identified before the play even started. Even if he doesn't slip it's a catchable ball. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's throw would have hit the field goal bar.

The reversed td to int was 1 on 1 too.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:08 pm 
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Brick wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Brick wrote:
He was covered until the defender started to slip. That's the NFL though. The margins are small.


It was 1 on 1 due to the blitz, which Foles identified before the play even started. Even if he doesn't slip it's a catchable ball. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's throw would have hit the field goal bar.

The reversed td to int was 1 on 1 too.

I don't know what we're debating anymore. The Miller TD was anything but the prayer you're making it out to be. Video tape, player and talking head anaylsis all demonstate it was a great read/diagnosis and throw. He knew he might be hit as he threw it. Like I said earlier, pick on the Graham throw all you want. That was bad. This wasn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:46 pm 
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Brick wrote:
...we don't have a hypothetical Nick Foles out there.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:18 pm 
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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:27 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Brick wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Brick wrote:
He was covered until the defender started to slip. That's the NFL though. The margins are small.


It was 1 on 1 due to the blitz, which Foles identified before the play even started. Even if he doesn't slip it's a catchable ball. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's throw would have hit the field goal bar.

The reversed td to int was 1 on 1 too.

I don't know what we're debating anymore. The Miller TD was anything but the prayer you're making it out to be. Video tape, player and talking head anaylsis all demonstate it was a great read/diagnosis and throw. He knew he might be hit as he threw it. Like I said earlier, pick on the Graham throw all you want. That was bad. This wasn't.

That Foles was just throwing it up and hoping. It mostly worked. If that was the way that play was drawn up at the end them that's good. However it did seem like the WR was covered until the db slipped.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:37 pm 
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Maybe Foles had an idea it would work so he just threw it up because it worked earlier in the same blitz package when Mitch missed the throw

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:05 pm 
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I’ll give Foles the benefit of the doubt. I never got the sense that he was doing the yolo thing and just heaving it up there, like local legend Rex Grossman. Then again, I wasn’t sober for the game. I might watch the replay if it’s on NFL network this week. Obviously, I’d begin at the point where Foles takes over. I never want to see Mitch’s stupid face again. Even on the news today, when they showed him at the podium, he was wearing a fucking backpack. The guy’s a complete genius.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:40 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Brick wrote:
He was covered until the defender started to slip. That's the NFL though. The margins are small.


It was 1 on 1 due to the blitz, which Foles identified before the play even started. Even if he doesn't slip it's a catchable ball. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's throw would have hit the field goal bar.

Vegan is right here. That was a throw / play as designed. You hop Robinson can make the catch. it was good coverage and the defender won the jump ball. Mitch on that play throws the ball n the corner of the stands.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:46 am 
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BigW72 wrote:
That was a throw / play as designed. You hop Robinson can make the catch. it was good coverage and the defender won the jump ball. Mitch on that play throws the ball n the corner of the stands.
You aren't defending the interception he actually threw are you? Throwing to a covered receiver and hoping that your WR bails you out is exactly the point I'm making. Foles is going to fail just like (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky if that is how he is going to play by just throwing it up there and hoping that it works out.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:17 am 
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Brick wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
That was a throw / play as designed. You hop Robinson can make the catch. it was good coverage and the defender won the jump ball. Mitch on that play throws the ball n the corner of the stands.
You aren't defending the interception he actually threw are you? Throwing to a covered receiver and hoping that your WR bails you out is exactly the point I'm making. Foles is going to fail just like (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky if that is how he is going to play by just throwing it up there and hoping that it works out.


There's no scheme in which WRs end up completely open with no defender within ten yards. You're going to have defenders still around you in a well executed route - it then becomes about having a step and then placing the ball in the right window. Foles did both because he personally directed Miller to a specific spot on the field and then threw that ball to that spot. He's not throwing the ball up for grabs like you'd do at a Labor Day post-picnic football game in your aunt's backyard.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:33 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Brick wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
That was a throw / play as designed. You hop Robinson can make the catch. it was good coverage and the defender won the jump ball. Mitch on that play throws the ball n the corner of the stands.
You aren't defending the interception he actually threw are you? Throwing to a covered receiver and hoping that your WR bails you out is exactly the point I'm making. Foles is going to fail just like (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky if that is how he is going to play by just throwing it up there and hoping that it works out.


There's no scheme in which WRs end up completely open with no defender within ten yards. You're going to have defenders still around you in a well executed route - it then becomes about having a step and then placing the ball in the right window. Foles did both because he personally directed Miller to a specific spot on the field and then threw that ball to that spot. He's not throwing the ball up for grabs like you'd do at a Labor Day post-picnic football game in your aunt's backyard.

He did on the int and the Graham td. We will see if that play style is sustainable. I hope it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:44 am 
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Brick wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Brick wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
That was a throw / play as designed. You hop Robinson can make the catch. it was good coverage and the defender won the jump ball. Mitch on that play throws the ball n the corner of the stands.
You aren't defending the interception he actually threw are you? Throwing to a covered receiver and hoping that your WR bails you out is exactly the point I'm making. Foles is going to fail just like (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky if that is how he is going to play by just throwing it up there and hoping that it works out.


There's no scheme in which WRs end up completely open with no defender within ten yards. You're going to have defenders still around you in a well executed route - it then becomes about having a step and then placing the ball in the right window. Foles did both because he personally directed Miller to a specific spot on the field and then threw that ball to that spot. He's not throwing the ball up for grabs like you'd do at a Labor Day post-picnic football game in your aunt's backyard.

He did on the int and the Graham td. We will see if that play style is sustainable. I hope it is.


Yeah I see what you did there and you're still wrong. This narrative of yours has no legs. If Foles fails it won't be because he thinks he's Brett Favre.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:46 am 
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You didn't like him before. Why are you suddenly so defensive about him?

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:53 am 
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Brick wrote:
You didn't like him before. Why are you suddenly so defensive about him?


I'm not defensive, I'm simply using evidence to show you why your narrative is misleading. There are plenty of criticisms of Foles that are undoubtedly valid. Here's one of mine: he's never demonstrated he can lead a team for a full season. He failed at that exact job in LA. I'm not sold on Foles, I just know he's an upgrade over the dumbass he replaced. It also remains true he didn't throw up a prayer to Miller for the game winning TD. Surely, after watching the video and hearing him and other players describe what he told Miller to do on the route based on the defense, you can admit that too.

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 Post subject: Re: Bears at Falcons
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:56 am 
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He did it plenty of other times in the game. So ignore the last one and it's still a valid concern.

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