and he'd still be a bust

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Any first round pick who isn't there after his rookie contract is a bust, but many never did anything good.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Exactly.

You're really stretching for reasons to make (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky the biggest bust if you think he's a bigger bust than McNown. It's not debatable imo. Cade was 10x worse and they weren't drafted far apart at all.

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Fare you well, fare you well
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Yes it is.

Nobody forced him to drive a '97 Camry.

_________________
Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

Pace probably didn't even know anything about (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. He was so secretive about the process he didn't even talk to any of the players.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

no remember, he only talked to the white players

I think Rick's point is a good one. If you HAD to take Mitch at 2 or Cade at 12, you're taking Mitch at 2 and it's an easy decision. Thus, Cade is clearly the bigger bust.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It doesn't matter that it wasn't (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's fault that they traded up. That shows Pace is an idiot but it's irrelevant to the bust argument. The fact is they gave up a 3rd and 4th to move up one spot and Mitch was, in fact, the 2nd pick of the draft. McCown was an unlikeable douchebag as well as a lousy QB so he definitely belongs in the conversation. However he was the 12th pick and the 5th QB selected. Further, the Bears traded back from 7 to 12 and picked up two 3rds, a 4th and a 5th to do so - that's quite a difference in value and expectations.

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You said it's irrelevant to the bust argument and then seemingly made the value judgement based on trades around it.

(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky at 2(or 3) is a much better pick than McNown at 12 or Curtis Enis at 5 or Kevin White at 7.

You got one really good year with (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky, and the team was good too. You can't say that about any of them.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

We're both in agreement that Cade, Kevin White, and Curtis (P)Enis are significantly worse at their respective positions than Mitch. They were all really, really awful. Mitch is really awful.
Carry on.

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No. Pace asked him to drive it from NC to IL for training camp.

_________________
Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

That's not "Aaron Rodgers taking his backup qb to a frat party and pretending to be frat brothers with them" weird but it's still pretty weird.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

My point was Mitch was the 2nd pick of the draft regardless of how that came to be. He was also the 1st QB chosen. The expectations associated with that selection are significantly higher than with a 12 that was also the 5th QB picked. The trades have to factor into the bust scoring as well. Ricky Williams is considered an all-time bust in NO almost entirely due to what Ditka gave up to get him.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

I'll make it simple.

You can either have Cade McCown with the 12th pick of the 2020 NFL draft or you can have (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky with the 2nd pick of the 2020 NFL draft. Which do you choose knowing what their careers would turn out to be. I actually think the White and Enis picks are worse than the McCown pick, but I'll still go with (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky even if it only gives me 1 good year rather than 0 good years.

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Rick Mirer was worse than any Bears quarterback mentioned here so far.

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The Bears have really had a lot of suck at the QB position, this we can all agree on.

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2018
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You're setting up a false equivalence. The question is not that expired milk is better than dog urine, therefore, whoever picked dog urine got the worse of the two options. No one wants either so it doesn't make any sense. The point is when you pick (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky at #2 you're stating he's the best QB overall in the draft, and quite possibly the best player in the draft. None of that ever came remotely close to being true. It was a total flop of a pick. With McNown, as the 5th QB taken and the #12 overall pick. no one is forecasting greatness here like you do with (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky at #2. There's no question the expectations of greatness are more for (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky than McNown. Hence, (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is the bigger letdown of the two

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You'd be a pretty bad GM to use the 12th pick on the draft and not expect him to be an elite quarterback. I'm just imaging the Bears when they drafted Cade McCown saying "Well, he was the fifth qb taken so if he sucks that's fine".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This is quite silly, of course. You're simply wrong if you think the expectations for the #12 pick in the draft and the #2 pick in the draft are drastically different. They aren't. If you draft a QB in either spot the expectation for both is that they become a franchise QB.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Again, that's not the scenario. At 12 with five to seven QBs to pick from, chances are you're not grabbing the most elite one. That knowledge is baked into the draft process. You'd be really dumb to think your chances of striking gold at 12 are the same as they are at 2, which is what you're doing. False equivalence. I can't believe I have to inform you that when you get picked at #2 there are higher expectations for you than if you were picked at 12 and on top of that four of your peers were picked before you.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Infatuated GM moving up one spot and giving up two 3rd round picks and a 4th rounder is lunacy. Rodgers is simply eccentric.

_________________
Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

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There are higher expectations for #2 than there is for #12, but in this case the pick at #2 was significantly better than the one picked at #12.

Is (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky a bigger bust than Ryan Leaf? Both were picked at #2, but Leaf was the second quarterback taken.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What does significantly better mean? I should tap out here as I consider it a small victory to get you to buy into the concept of a #2 QB having higher expectations on his shoulders than a #12 pick who saw four QBs get drafted before him.

I don't know what Leaf has to do with any of this. If you could go back into time, no one is picking (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky at #2 (except you, perhaps) and no one is picking Leaf. That you wouldn't touch (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky anywhere near #2 in a redraft is further proof of him being a massive bust.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You are calling the (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky pick the biggest bust in Chicago history. I'm at least keeping it to football. I wouldn't pick (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky again at 2, and I HATED the trade when it happened, but I would take (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky at 2 over McCown at 12, or White at 7, or Enis at 5.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky also has to forever wear the Sam Bowie tag for going ahead of Mahomes. Maybe not fair to him (but certainly fair to Pace).

I don’t know if bust = disappointment in whatever this argument is turning into, but I can’t imagine a more disappointing pick than Tru given the combination of expectations, draft position, traded picks and the guys that went behind him.

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I agree those guys are busts but they weren't drafted to fill the most important position on the roster, and no one was drafted as high as (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was. Again, this is the second player overall taken, and the first QB. This means you think he's all world, can't miss, and he was anything but. When I say (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is a bigger bust than those guys it doesn't mean those guys are better than Mitch. It means relative to expectations Mitch was a bigger whiff than those other guys.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

So the biggest bust is basically just the highest quarterback a team drafted that didn't turn into a great player?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

We seemed to be doing well, and by that I mean having a decent exchange of viewpoints, until this one. I'll let you try again.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You said that the pick filled the most important position on the roster. Does that disqualify all non-quarterback picks from being the biggest bust?

Even if we say that (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky is a bigger bust than Cade McCown, you still can't say he was a bigger bust than Curtis Enis unless it has to be a quarterback. That's not even getting into the Cedric Benson discussion.

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Yup.

_________________
Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley