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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:46 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I clearly didn’t love the pick. But if I were going to defend it, it would be based on need. I think they are OK at the 4,5 and 2. An argument could be made for Haliburton filling the biggest need - particularly after letting Dunn go - but clearly he wasn’t thought of as highly by NBA GMs as the experts predicted. I liked the Otto Porter trade at the time but he has been a disappointment and Chandler Hutchison is a fringe player. (From what I read) Williams brings much needed defense and athleticism. He’s also young with apparent potential so it could pay off in 2022. If White can play the point (that’s a big if) then the 3 was the right position. They are in desperate need of a star so maybe it was a gamble worth taking.

Only quibble I would have, and I think you'd agree with, is we aren't set at any position right now. Everyone on our roster is replaceable and there's no true cornerstone. Let AK have a blank canvas and paint the picture he wants. We can start judging it at the end of the 2021 season.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:48 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I2ZPOxBn1c

I've lost interest in the Draft at this point. Watching some of this on the big screen now :lol: had to check out Zippy and Nardi's guy. It's been a minute

i loved that old Milwaukee floor.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:48 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I2ZPOxBn1c

I've lost interest in the Draft at this point. Watching some of this on the big screen now :lol: had to check out Zippy and Nardi's guy. It's been a minute

i loved that old Milwaukee floor.

Yeah, it's pretty fucking cool

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:49 pm 
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I love how they kept commercials in the youtube broadcast. Some of these are wild :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:50 pm 
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I've become a fan of Zach Lavine. Love how he resisted some of Boylen's dumbassery and he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I'm not sure he's the two guard of the future but I kind of want him to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:52 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I'm fine disagreeing on Deng but just don't pretend Mickey Johnson was a better basketball player. That's a fucking ridiculous statement.

Again you never saw him. What does “knowing NBA history” mean in this stupid argument? Do you mean you watched tape of him? Read books on him? I seriously doubt you know anything about him other than the name. He was a good scorer, solid rebounder and their best player for a couple of years. And no, he wasn’t a great player. Deng may have been better - he certainly had a better career - but they were comparable and I don’t think you have a clue as to what type of player Johnson was.

I've literally seen whole games of him play. I used to watch a shitload of 70's and 80's basketball on Youtube and watched as many old Bulls stuff as I could back in the day. Of course that's not comparable to watching a player every night while they are playing, but get all the way the fuck outta here with this notion that you can't judge a player if you weren't watching them day in and day out at the time and subsequently letting old farts tell you obviously inferior players were better than more contemporary players because of that.

I think we’re taken this as far as we can. I do wonder why anyone would watch Bulls basketball from that era though. It was excruciating. I remember the highlight one year was Ricky Sobers free throw streak. :lol:

They weren't bad. They had Artis and Scott May and played ferocious D. Ed Badger coached with Jerry Sloan as assistant.

Artis was my guy. The first game I ever saw in person was Artis against Walton the year the Blazers won the championship. It was great. Scott May though? I remember him mostly as a high draft pick that looked good as a rookie then succumbed to injury and ultimately ended as a disappointment. Better than Deng though.

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Last edited by Zippy-The-Pinhead on Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:52 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I've become a fan of Zach Lavine. Love how he resisted some of Boylen's dumbassery and he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I'm not sure he's the two guard of the future but I kind of want him to be.

Don't like him but at this point I'm basically willing to give everyone on the team a blank slate. Boylen was that bad. Donovan isn't Pop but he has a baseline of being a solid NBA coach. Anyone who doesn't start making major strides this year can kick rocks, including Lavine.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:54 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Artis was my guy. The first game I ever saw in person was Artis against Walton the year the Blazers won the championship. It was great. Scott May though? I remember him mostly as a high draft pick that looked good as a rookie then succumbed to injury and ultimately ended as a disappointment. Better than Deng though.

Artis was good. I remember hearing the name a lot growing up in the 90's and thinking he was an old timey bum. But he really does stand out when you watch some of those old games.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:59 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I clearly didn’t love the pick. But if I were going to defend it, it would be based on need. I think they are OK at the 4,5 and 2. An argument could be made for Haliburton filling the biggest need - particularly after letting Dunn go - but clearly he wasn’t thought of as highly by NBA GMs as the experts predicted. I liked the Otto Porter trade at the time but he has been a disappointment and Chandler Hutchison is a fringe player. (From what I read) Williams brings much needed defense and athleticism. He’s also young with apparent potential so it could pay off in 2022. If White can play the point (that’s a big if) then the 3 was the right position. They are in desperate need of a star so maybe it was a gamble worth taking.

Only quibble I would have, and I think you'd agree with, is we aren't set at any position right now. Everyone on our roster is replaceable and there's no true cornerstone. Let AK have a blank canvas and paint the picture he wants. We can start judging it at the end of the 2021 season.
I agree with that. I see next season as a test of Donovan. If they are surprisingly competitive then I’m back on board. AK can then re-shape as needed. If they stay at the bottom then I think we’re looking at 3 years minimum of rebuild.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:03 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I love how they kept commercials in the youtube broadcast. Some of these are wild :lol:

Did you go to the 54:00 mark and watch Cazzie Russell vs Mickey in HORSE?


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:04 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I clearly didn’t love the pick. But if I were going to defend it, it would be based on need. I think they are OK at the 4,5 and 2. An argument could be made for Haliburton filling the biggest need - particularly after letting Dunn go - but clearly he wasn’t thought of as highly by NBA GMs as the experts predicted. I liked the Otto Porter trade at the time but he has been a disappointment and Chandler Hutchison is a fringe player. (From what I read) Williams brings much needed defense and athleticism. He’s also young with apparent potential so it could pay off in 2022. If White can play the point (that’s a big if) then the 3 was the right position. They are in desperate need of a star so maybe it was a gamble worth taking.

Only quibble I would have, and I think you'd agree with, is we aren't set at any position right now. Everyone on our roster is replaceable and there's no true cornerstone. Let AK have a blank canvas and paint the picture he wants. We can start judging it at the end of the 2021 season.
I agree with that. I see next season as a test of Donovan. If they are surprisingly competitive then I’m back on board. AK can then re-shape as needed. If they stay at the bottom then I think we’re looking at 3 years minimum of rebuild.

I don't know what to think of Donovan. I hated him when Durant was on OKC, thought he was in a tough spot when Durant left but was probably fine, and was like everyone else very impressed with what he did last year. I agree that he's an intriguing piece of all this to see what he can do.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:06 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I love how they kept commercials in the youtube broadcast. Some of these are wild :lol:

Did you go to the 54:00 mark and watch Cazzie Russell vs Mickey in HORSE?

:lol: Nah I'm at the 28 minute mark currently.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:07 pm 
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Not budging off Deng > Mickey but willing to concede it was closer than I acknowledged before

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:13 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Artis was my guy. The first game I ever saw in person was Artis against Walton the year the Blazers won the championship. It was great. Scott May though? I remember him mostly as a high draft pick that looked good as a rookie then succumbed to injury and ultimately ended as a disappointment. Better than Deng though.

Artis was good. I remember hearing the name a lot growing up in the 90's and thinking he was an old timey bum. But he really does stand out when you watch some of those old games.

It was such a different game. Everything revolved around the center. They never went more than 10 feet from the basket and they beat the hell out of each other. It’s weird how many good 7 footers there were back then. When Shaq came into the league he was a bit of an anomaly. Ewing was getting older and his contemporary competition included guys like Mourning, Stoudemire and Ben Wallace. Yao Ming had the size but he couldn’t stay with Shaq. Robinson had the height but wasn’t really a banger.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:20 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I love how they kept commercials in the youtube broadcast. Some of these are wild :lol:

Did you go to the 54:00 mark and watch Cazzie Russell vs Mickey in HORSE?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I just fast forwarded to this part. I'm trying to meet you and Zippy halfway on Mickey and this fucker misses a wide open left handed layup?

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:47 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nardi wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I love how they kept commercials in the youtube broadcast. Some of these are wild :lol:

Did you go to the 54:00 mark and watch Cazzie Russell vs Mickey in HORSE?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I just fast forwarded to this part. I'm trying to meet you and Zippy halfway on Mickey and this fucker misses a wide open left handed layup?

Yeah, well it looks like I'm meeting you halfway too. He wasn't as good as I remembered him to be. I kinda hate watching '70's basketball. The game didn't fully develop until Bird and Magic, then followed up by MJ.


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:19 am 
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Nardi wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nardi wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I love how they kept commercials in the youtube broadcast. Some of these are wild :lol:

Did you go to the 54:00 mark and watch Cazzie Russell vs Mickey in HORSE?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I just fast forwarded to this part. I'm trying to meet you and Zippy halfway on Mickey and this fucker misses a wide open left handed layup?

Yeah, well it looks like I'm meeting you halfway too. He wasn't as good as I remembered him to be. I kinda hate watching '70's basketball. The game didn't fully develop until Bird and Magic, then followed up by MJ.

:lol:

Fair enough. Because I didn’t grow up watching them I love em. But yes the 80s seem like the best without a doubt

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:48 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Artis was my guy. The first game I ever saw in person was Artis against Walton the year the Blazers won the championship. It was great. Scott May though? I remember him mostly as a high draft pick that looked good as a rookie then succumbed to injury and ultimately ended as a disappointment. Better than Deng though.

Artis was good. I remember hearing the name a lot growing up in the 90's and thinking he was an old timey bum. But he really does stand out when you watch some of those old games.

It was such a different game. Everything revolved around the center. They never went more than 10 feet from the basket and they beat the hell out of each other. It’s weird how many good 7 footers there were back then. When Shaq came into the league he was a bit of an anomaly. Ewing was getting older and his contemporary competition included guys like Mourning, Stoudemire and Ben Wallace. Yao Ming had the size but he couldn’t stay with Shaq. Robinson had the height but wasn’t really a banger.


Shaq was more or less the real good “banger” centers. Anyway, watching Artis now as I did as a kid makes me lorn for real old center play. Now we have three pointers and I can’t change the channel fast enough.

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Last edited by pittmike on Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:47 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
I’m inclined to agree with conns that this dude is a nobody but whatever. Terrible draft. Maybe he becomes ok.



I saw a Kawhi comparison from someone. You love Kawhi.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:49 am 
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all I'll say is that for the past week or two Williams has been skyrocketing up the draft board. Heard someone say he could even crack the top 3 at one point. So I'll give the Bulls credit for grabbing the hottest name at the draft. I remember the Bulls doing that in 1987 as well and it worked out.



So there ya go, Jay Bilas compares a 2nd rounder to Tim Duncan and I just compared Williams to Scottie Pippen.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:55 am 
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shakes wrote:
So there ya go, Jay Bilas compares a 2nd rounder to Tim Duncan and I just compared Williams to Scottie Pippen.


That would be nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:38 am 
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Jason Bernstein says that Williams can handle the ball in pick-and-roll better than people think. BOOM!

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:42 am 
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So how long before we know if this guy sucks or not?

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:43 am 
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shakes wrote:
all I'll say is that for the past week or two Williams has been skyrocketing up the draft board. Heard someone say he could even crack the top 3 at one point. So I'll give the Bulls credit for grabbing the hottest name at the draft. I remember the Bulls doing that in 1987 as well and it worked out.
Didn't they do that with Tyrus Thomas as well?

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:48 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
shakes wrote:
all I'll say is that for the past week or two Williams has been skyrocketing up the draft board. Heard someone say he could even crack the top 3 at one point. So I'll give the Bulls credit for grabbing the hottest name at the draft. I remember the Bulls doing that in 1987 as well and it worked out.
Didn't they do that with Tyrus Thomas as well?


Yep. I detailed this elsewhere but we have the worst luck. Kevin Durant would have been in the 2006 draft had the league not raised the minimum draft age to 19 that same year. Something like that. So Durant goes to Texas for a year and we draft Thomas at no 2. It's possible we don't draft Durant in 2006 if he was allowed to enter but still. Sucks to think about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:50 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
So how long before we know if this guy sucks or not?


That question has already been definitively answered. See Jason Bernstein's comment above.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:56 am 
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Everything I read on line makes it seem like Devon Dotson may have been a steal. Here's one example from a Philly-based scouting report...
https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/ ... basketball

Devon Dotson was the driving force and leading scorer on the best team in college basketball last season. Kansas was considered the favorite to win the national championship before the NCAA Tournament was cancelled. Had Dotson led the Jayhawks to a Final Four appearance and potentially a national title, his draft stock would have likely skyrocketed. As it is, he's a fringe first-round prospect who is more likely to be selected early in the second round.

Dotson led Kansas with 18.1 points and 2.1 steals per game last season as a sophomore. He earned First Team All-Big 12 and Second Team All-American honors for a Kansas team that finished the regular season with a 28-3 record. His college head coach Bill Self says Dotson could have been the best point guard ever to play for him at Kansas had Dotson's career not been cut short by the coronavirus pandemic and his subsequent decision to declare for the NBA Draft. That would qualify as high praise from a Hall of Famer who has coached more than his share of terrific lead guards.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:58 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
So how long before we know if this guy sucks or not?


That question has already been definitively answered. See Jason Bernstein's comment above.


Sounds impressive. Does he have any skills? I keep hearing about how he "projects" to add this or that ability if he works at it. That's sort of euphemistically calling him a physical specimen who possibly can do what others as big and tall as him do just because...he's big and tall.

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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:40 pm 
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Is it possible we aren't fully informed about this draft class sucking? There was no tournament. HS and college kids can grow by leaps and bounds in a very short time. The NCAA tournament is a fine petri dish for such leaps and bounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Patrick Williams
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:50 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
So how long before we know if this guy sucks or not?


That question has already been definitively answered. See Jason Bernstein's comment above.


Sounds impressive. Does he have any skills?

Breaking down Patrick Williams:
- 6’8 F with 6’11 wingspan
- Elite on-ball defender. Elite shot blocker
- 2nd young player in the draft
- Ball handler
- Elite Hustler
- Good 3pt shooter
- Create own shot
- Can guard all 5 positions
- Didn’t start any games but finished them
- NCAA season was cut short limiting his opportunity to start
- Compared to Kawhi Leonard/OG Anunoby


He's an elite hustler

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