I'll say best player on a conference finalist it was a great pick.

Best player on a second round team means he is not a bust.

If he tops out at Best player on a lottery team, ala Zach Lavine = bust.

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By What year does he need to accomplish all of this?

Using this particular rationale you're saying that guys like Trae Young are currently busts then. I hope you realize this.

If he becomes the best player on any team he's not a bust

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Not 1, Not 2, Not 3...

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If he turns into an above average starter than he's not a bust. It's pretty much that simple.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If you are the 4th pick in the draft and can't lead a team to the playoffs at some point you are a bust.

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Yep. He does not need to be the best player on any team.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Before second contract is over.

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you are just trying to set things up so you can be proven right down the road

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

So as it stands now Trae Young and Lonzo are busts in your opinion?

Are there second contracts done?

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And you are being as vague as possible.

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That's not true. I don't think you have a good understanding of expectations for NBA players drafted #4 overall, especially in what is universally regarded as a weak draft. Let's look at the last 30 years

Number 4

Year Player School/Country – Team

2019 De’Andre Hunter – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Jaren Jackson Jr., Michigan State – Memphis Grizzlies
2017 Josh Jackson, Kansas – Phoenix Suns
2016 Dragan Bender, Israel – Phoenix Suns
2015 Kristaps Porzingis, Baloncesta Sevilla – New York Knicks
2014 Aaron Gordon, Arizona – Orlando Magic
2013 Cody Zeller, Indiana – Charlotte Bobcats
2012 Dion Waiters, Syracuse – Cleveland Cavaliers
2011 Tristan Thompson, Texas – Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Wesley Johnson, Syracuse – Minnesota Timberwolves

2000’s

2009 Tyreke Evans, Memphis – Sacramento Kings
2008 Russell Westbrook, UCLA – Seattle Supersonics
2007 Mike Conley Jr, Ohio State – Memphis Grizzlies
2006 Tyrus Thomas, Louisiana State – Portland Trail Blazers
2005 Chris Paul, Wake Forest – New Orleans Hornets
2004 Shaun Livingston, Peoria HS (IL) – L.A. Clippers
2003 Chris Bosh, Georgia Tech – Toronto Raptors
2002 Drew Gooden, Kansas – Memphis Grizzlies
2001 Eddy Curry, Thornwood HS (IL) – Chicago Bulls
2000 Marcus Fizer, Iowa State – Chicago Bulls

1990’s

1999 Lamar Odom, Rhode Island – L.A. Clippers
1998 Antawn Jamison, North Carolina – Toronto Raptors
1997 Antonio Daniels, Bowling Green – Vancouver Grizzlies
1996 Stephon Marbury, Georgia Tech – Milwaukee Bucks
1995 Rasheed Wallace, North Carolina – Washington Bullets
1994 Donyell Marshall, Connecticut – Minnesota Timberwolves
1993 Jamal Mashburn, Kentucky – Dallas Mavericks
1992 Jim Jackson, Ohio State – Dallas Mavericks
1991 Dikembe Mutombo, Georgetown – Denver Nuggets
1990 Dennis Scott, Georgia Tech – Orlando Magic


By your definition, guys like Mike Conley and Porzingis are busts. That's ridiculous.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Neither will be the best player on a playoff team. Lonzo will be fighting to stay in the league in 2 years. Just like i thought initially.

6 rings or bust

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RFDC is right. You're setting expectations that don't align with reality so that you can say he's a bust even if it's clear he became a good player.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Define good player.

_________________

I already did. My 2nd post in this thread.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Pete Myers

Interesting.

Of those 30 players, if Williams hits the top 12 by the end of his second contract, it was a very good pick.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

I enjoy a good hypothetical argument.

I’m with you Conns!!!

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All I know is that the Bulls tanked for Patrick Williams so he better be really good.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He is. His floor his Kawhi.

The 4th pick in a weak draft is already a reach. AK did the right thing thing by rolling dice. Pax would taken the dime a dozen Israeli. Just as he took the dime a dozen Carter over Porter. No one wins with dimes.

People laugh at Detroit and Charlotte. I applaud them. For fucksake, they are Detroit and Charlotte. How else can they compete in this environment of great players bunching up and choosing their own teams?

The Chicagos and the Charlottes and the Detroits HAVE to roll the dice.

its funny you're lumping Chicago in with Charlotte and Detroit

The franchise hasn't been driven into the ground? It was the laughingstock of the league last year.

That's true but it was entirely self inflicted. I'm sure there are moves that have turned out worse, but I can't think of a more incompetent decision in recent NBA memory than to extend Jim Boylen as head coach after he proved he was a total shitshow in the interim. It was beyond embarrassing.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Take a look at the Knicks. Their fans were sure they were the team the great players would come to. They aren't and they won't.

It's the Notre Dame syndrome.