It is currently Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:02 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
SpiralStairs wrote:
What is it that you think happened in this case?


A drunk woman went home with a drunk guy, and she had sex with someone who she wouldn't normally. And she regretted it. I don't have any idea if she said she wanted to at any point. The guy seems like he's probably an idiot. You are going to have ugly sexual hook-ups in a society where women are encouraged drink and party like the boys. I would err on the side of drunken excess before I start throwing people into prison.

Yet the same people who will tell us mass incarceration is a problem want to throw the way the key on drunken hook-ups gone wrong situations. I would rather lock up the people pulling guns on Uber drivers, and maybe get fewer that 800 murders in Chicago this year, than the guys who took the wrong drunk girl home.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:33 pm
Posts: 19196
pizza_Place: World Famous Pizza
OK. Now what actually happened in this case?

_________________
Seacrest wrote:
The menstrual cycle changes among Hassidic Jewish women was something as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
SpiralStairs wrote:
OK. Now what actually happened in this case?


I don't know for sure, and neither do you. But thanks for the Boilermaker Rick act. Keep asking until you get the proper answer.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:28 am
Posts: 24342
Location: Boofoo Zoo
pizza_Place: Chuck E Cheese
Maybe Matt Gaetz can move to Minnesota. What if they’re passed out AND underaged?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:33 pm
Posts: 19196
pizza_Place: World Famous Pizza
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
OK. Now what actually happened in this case?


I don't know for sure, and neither do you. But thanks for the Boilermaker Rick act. Keep asking until you get the proper answer.


Except you have convinced yourself that you do know what happened.

_________________
Seacrest wrote:
The menstrual cycle changes among Hassidic Jewish women was something as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:49 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102661
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
good dolphin wrote:
It's not like you can just go around dead horsing women.


WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Hold my beer!

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
SpiralStairs wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
OK. Now what actually happened in this case?


I don't know for sure, and neither do you. But thanks for the Boilermaker Rick act. Keep asking until you get the proper answer.


Except you have convinced yourself that you do know what happened.


I know you wanted to point out that your vast knowledge of the law knows that this was some legal technicality victory. What I've clearly said is that these are usually ugly messy situations with no clear villain. The bloodlust to throw people into prison over it is misplaced especially in a society that considers a guy who held a gun to a pregnant woman in a come invasion a patron saint.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
Frank Coztansa wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
It's not like you can just go around dead horsing women.


WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Hold my beer!


I know that tucking behind your legs and saying you are fighting against the patriarchy is the only way someone that looks like you or has your ... "insights" has gotten laid but you don't have to keep up the act here. You can actually not be a castrated bitch here, and give an opinion if you are capable of it. Sorry, just disregard the rest.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:33 pm
Posts: 19196
pizza_Place: World Famous Pizza
I'm largely in agreement with your broader point. But to act like states attorneys are prosecuting every drunken hook up that crosses their desk is not true.

Very few states attorneys are going to pursue a case that isn't going to ultimately result in a conviction. Not a great look on the stat sheet.

_________________
Seacrest wrote:
The menstrual cycle changes among Hassidic Jewish women was something as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:14 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80109
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
good dolphin wrote:
I don't think this ruling means what the writer appears to say it means.

It's not like you can just go around dead horsing women.

It's just that a person can't claim rape based on lack of consent due to impariment.

No still means no. It's just that yes means yes, even tomorrow if there is some regret.



Right. "Incapacitated" in this context doesn't mean passed out, it means drunk or high.

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:29 pm
Posts: 56483
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
Quote:
come invasion

Weird way to say "rape"

_________________
Molly Lambert wrote:
The future holds the possibility to be great or terrible, and since it has not yet occurred it remains simultaneously both.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:05 pm
Posts: 25106
pizza_Place: Pizanos
Curious Hair wrote:
Quote:
come invasion

And members of Cum Invasion

_________________
Peter Clavin wrote:
Because you are stupid, maybe read some books educate yourself.
Nardi wrote:
We walk, talk, and won't shit our pants


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 33206
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
It's not like you can just go around dead horsing women.


WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Hold my beer!


I know that tucking behind your legs and saying you are fighting against the patriarchy is the only way someone that looks like you or has your ... "insights" has gotten laid but you don't have to keep up the act here. You can actually not be a castrated patriot here, and give an opinion if you are capable of it. Sorry, just disregard the rest.


Is this like a “cuck to fuck” strategy?

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:56 pm
Posts: 37958
Location: ...
the testimony of the woman in this case sounds like she was saying "no" even being as intoxicated as she was.

Quote:
As per Hennepin County prosecutors, on May 13, 2017, Khalil encountered a woman outside a Dinkytown bar who’d just consumed five shots of vodka and a prescription narcotic. Khalil invited her and a friend to a party. As per court documents, Khalil and two other men drove them to a house in Minneapolis, where there was no party. The woman, identified only by her initials “J.S.”, testified that she blacked out on the couch and later woke up to find Khalil raping her.

J.S., as per court documents, told Khalil, “No, I don’t want to.” Khalil replied, “But you’re so hot and you turn me on.” J.S. then lost consciousness again. At some point in the middle of the night, her friend, identified with the initials “S.L.” testified that she attempted to awaken J.S. so they could leave the house but that she was unable to awaken her.

At approximately 8 a.m., J.S. woke up, saw her shorts around her ankles, and immediately recalled the events of the evening. The two called for a ride and left the house. During the ride, J.S. told S.L. that she had been raped. Thereafter, J.S. reported the incident to the police. During his police interview, Khalil stated that he did not remember J.S. and never had sex with her.


this woman definitely fucked herself over by doing so many shots while on prescription drugs, but according to her testimony, she was still telling the guy "no".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:39 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80109
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
W_Z wrote:
the testimony of the woman in this case sounds like she was saying "no" even being as intoxicated as she was.

Quote:
As per Hennepin County prosecutors, on May 13, 2017, Khalil encountered a woman outside a Dinkytown bar who’d just consumed five shots of vodka and a prescription narcotic. Khalil invited her and a friend to a party. As per court documents, Khalil and two other men drove them to a house in Minneapolis, where there was no party. The woman, identified only by her initials “J.S.”, testified that she blacked out on the couch and later woke up to find Khalil raping her.

J.S., as per court documents, told Khalil, “No, I don’t want to.” Khalil replied, “But you’re so hot and you turn me on.” J.S. then lost consciousness again. At some point in the middle of the night, her friend, identified with the initials “S.L.” testified that she attempted to awaken J.S. so they could leave the house but that she was unable to awaken her.

At approximately 8 a.m., J.S. woke up, saw her shorts around her ankles, and immediately recalled the events of the evening. The two called for a ride and left the house. During the ride, J.S. told S.L. that she had been raped. Thereafter, J.S. reported the incident to the police. During his police interview, Khalil stated that he did not remember J.S. and never had sex with her.


this woman definitely fucked herself over by doing so many shots while on prescription drugs, but according to her testimony, she was still telling the guy "no".


I don't think the point is the facts of this singular case. What it comes down to is, are women responsible for their behavior after they get fucked up? And if you think women and men are equal- let alone "the same"- how could it be that you are an arch criminal and attempted murderer for driving with a BAC of .08 yet a woman with the same BAC is not responsible for any decisions she makes regarding who she chooses to go to bed with?

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:33 pm
Posts: 19196
pizza_Place: World Famous Pizza
That's certainly one way to frame an argument.

_________________
Seacrest wrote:
The menstrual cycle changes among Hassidic Jewish women was something as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 93149
Location: To the left of my post
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think the point is the facts of this singular case. What it comes down to is, are women responsible for their behavior after they get fucked up? And if you think women and men are equal- let alone "the same"- how could it be that you are an arch criminal and attempted murderer for driving with a BAC of .08 yet a woman with the same BAC is not responsible for any decisions she makes regarding who she chooses to go to bed with?
Should it be legal to steal the purse of a woman who is passed out? It seems like the argument here is that you can't be the victim of an actual crime if you are too intoxicated to stop the crime from happening.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:48 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80109
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
Brick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think the point is the facts of this singular case. What it comes down to is, are women responsible for their behavior after they get fucked up? And if you think women and men are equal- let alone "the same"- how could it be that you are an arch criminal and attempted murderer for driving with a BAC of .08 yet a woman with the same BAC is not responsible for any decisions she makes regarding who she chooses to go to bed with?
Should it be legal to steal the purse of a woman who is passed out? It seems like the argument here is that you can't be the victim of an actual crime if you are too intoxicated to stop the crime from happening.



As I said earlier, in the context of this law "incapacitated" doesn't mean "passed out". Anyway, you seem to have it backward. The question isn't whether one can be a victim while intoxicated, it's whether one has agency while intoxicated. And if not, we have a lot of laws that need to be addressed.

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:28 am
Posts: 24342
Location: Boofoo Zoo
pizza_Place: Chuck E Cheese
It a drunk driver runs over someone passed out in the road does it even make a sound?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:51 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80109
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
SpiralStairs wrote:
That's certainly one way to frame an argument.



Are you of the opinion that a woman with a BAC of .08 is incapable of consenting to sex? Because if you are, you've just accused many people- and quite possibly yourself- of rape.

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 93149
Location: To the left of my post
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
As I said earlier, in the context of this law "incapacitated" doesn't mean "passed out". Anyway, you seem to have it backward. The question isn't whether one can be a victim while intoxicated, it's whether one has agency while intoxicated. And if not, we have a lot of laws that need to be addressed.

Should it be legal to steal the purse of a woman who is "incapacitated"? It seems like the argument here is that you can't be the victim of an actual crime if you are too "incapacitated" to stop the crime from happening.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:53 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80109
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
Brick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
As I said earlier, in the context of this law "incapacitated" doesn't mean "passed out". Anyway, you seem to have it backward. The question isn't whether one can be a victim while intoxicated, it's whether one has agency while intoxicated. And if not, we have a lot of laws that need to be addressed.

Should it be legal to steal the purse of a woman who is "incapacitated"? It seems like the argument here is that you can't be the victim of an actual crime if you are too "incapacitated" to stop the crime from happening.



Yeah Rick, that's the argument. You win.

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:33 pm
Posts: 19196
pizza_Place: World Famous Pizza
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
That's certainly one way to frame an argument.



Are you of the opinion that a woman with a BAC of .08 is incapable of consenting to sex? Because if you are, you've just accused many people- and quite possibly yourself- of rape.



Read the statute that was addressed in this case. The scenario you describe is not a crime assuming the lady is the one that made herself drunk.

On the other hand, driving with a BAC over .08% is a crime because the statue makes driving a car with a BAC over .08% a crime.

_________________
Seacrest wrote:
The menstrual cycle changes among Hassidic Jewish women was something as well.


Last edited by SpiralStairs on Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:28 am
Posts: 24342
Location: Boofoo Zoo
pizza_Place: Chuck E Cheese
I’ve never felt so morally superior than I have right now knowing I’ve never been drunk and most people on this board are rapists. I demand a revote in March Madness.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:59 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80109
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
SpiralStairs wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
That's certainly one way to frame an argument.



Are you of the opinion that a woman with a BAC of .08 is incapable of consenting to sex? Because if you are, you've just accused many people- and quite possibly yourself- of rape.



Read the statute that was addressed in this case. The scenario you describe is not a crime.

On the other hand, driving with a BAC over .08% is a crime because the statue makes driving a car with a BAC over .08% a crime.



What is the BAC at which a woman's "yes" is rendered unacceptable?

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:59 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80109
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
KDdidit wrote:
I’ve never felt so morally superior than I have right now knowing I’ve never been drunk and most people on this board are rapists. I demand a revote in March Madness.


:lol:

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:33 pm
Posts: 19196
pizza_Place: World Famous Pizza
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
That's certainly one way to frame an argument.



Are you of the opinion that a woman with a BAC of .08 is incapable of consenting to sex? Because if you are, you've just accused many people- and quite possibly yourself- of rape.



Read the statute that was addressed in this case. The scenario you describe is not a crime.

On the other hand, driving with a BAC over .08% is a crime because the statue makes driving a car with a BAC over .08% a crime.



What is the BAC at which a woman's "yes" is rendered unacceptable?


I don't know. BAC isn't a great judge of whether or not someone is incapacitated.

_________________
Seacrest wrote:
The menstrual cycle changes among Hassidic Jewish women was something as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 93149
Location: To the left of my post
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Brick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
As I said earlier, in the context of this law "incapacitated" doesn't mean "passed out". Anyway, you seem to have it backward. The question isn't whether one can be a victim while intoxicated, it's whether one has agency while intoxicated. And if not, we have a lot of laws that need to be addressed.

Should it be legal to steal the purse of a woman who is "incapacitated"? It seems like the argument here is that you can't be the victim of an actual crime if you are too "incapacitated" to stop the crime from happening.



Yeah Rick, that's the argument. You win.
Isn't it the argument? If she was "incapacitated" meaning "deprived of strength and power" and we make the assumption that she did in fact say she was not interested then it's the same argument.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:06 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80109
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
SpiralStairs wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
That's certainly one way to frame an argument.



Are you of the opinion that a woman with a BAC of .08 is incapable of consenting to sex? Because if you are, you've just accused many people- and quite possibly yourself- of rape.



Read the statute that was addressed in this case. The scenario you describe is not a crime.

On the other hand, driving with a BAC over .08% is a crime because the statue makes driving a car with a BAC over .08% a crime.



What is the BAC at which a woman's "yes" is rendered unacceptable?


I don't know. BAC isn't a great judge of whether or not someone is incapacitated.


Well, there has to be some standard, right?

I think it's perfectly reasonable to consider what happened in the case in question a rape/assault while at the same time recognizing that sharing a couple bottles of wine with a woman before having sex with her doesn't become a rape/assault depending on the feelings or whims of the woman at some later date.

Quote:
Moller introduced legislation earlier this year to amend the third-degree sexual misconduct statutes to include language that says anyone who is intoxicated, for any reason, is unable to give consent.

"It makes it very clear that this issue needs to be fixed at the legislature," Lindsay Brice, the law and policy director of the Minnesota Coalition Against Sexual Assault, said of the state Supreme Court's Wednesday ruling.


Maybe the law should be changed, but do you think that anyone who is intoxicated is unable to give consent?

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:33 pm
Posts: 19196
pizza_Place: World Famous Pizza
That would depend on how we define intoxicated.

They way you seem to want to read this law is that its going to be abused by women (OR MEN) who have post hook up regret.

_________________
Seacrest wrote:
The menstrual cycle changes among Hassidic Jewish women was something as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group