everyone better get comfortable with a lineup of

RF Eloy
CF Robert
LF Vaughn
DH Mercedes

and Engel playing every single game from the seventh inning on

I'll live with the decreased defense. So will the pitchers. That offense will mash

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I don't care about the weak defense on an outfield corner. My concern is Jimenez hurting himself or someone else out there.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

just can't step foot on american soil

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

He's a smart guy. I think he needs to be told some limitations. Heels on the warning track. Catch what is in front of you and never call an IF or CF off a ball.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

You put Vaughn in RF and Eloy in LF. Yes I'm comfortable with that line-up at the expense of the defense. That line-up is a pitcher's worst nightmare. Imagine something like this in September when everyone is healthy.

1: Anderson SS
2: Robert CF
3: Moncada 3B
4: Abreu 1B
5: Mercedes DH
6: Eloy LF
7: Grandal C
8: Vaughn RF
9: Madrigal 2B

There's about 50 different ways that line-up can kill a pitcher's ERA.

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Smart or not, he's all thumbs. He's the hitting version of Britt Burns. I think Yermin gets moved at the deadline. Tony doesn't like him and Tony runs things.

You would never get appropriate value for Mercedes.

He would need to prove himself for at least a full year, probably two. Then, as he sits there still with 4 years of control, you can get his value.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

yes, I mixed up their spots

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

It's inconvenient that Abreu doesn't appear to be slowing down with the bat and has actually gotten much better defensively.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

it's a real shame we had to turn our future 1B into a corner OF because Abreu is still hitting the crap out of the ball and Yermin became a solid DH. It's great that this is our major concern for the 2nd half of the season.

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

When its all said and done, like 10 years from now, we'll look back and there will be no doubt that Abreu had the better career vs Rizzo.

_________________

I am starting to suspect something...

we have been blessed with consecutive first basemen who got better in their 30s.

I think god balances our history of great 1B with bad DH

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Are you serious? There isn't even a comparison. The only thing that is going to keep Abreu out of the Hall of Fame is that he didn't get to play in the big leagues for the first third of his career. Rizzo's better comparison is Konerko.

Frank is the greatest White Sox player in history and one of the greatest right-handed hitters to ever play the game, but I'll say this- if I were putting together a team I'd take Abreu over Frank every time.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Abreu over Frank Thomas, that's going to be one for the ages...

Whatever. There's more to the game than sheer numbers.

Anthony Rizzo is a guy like many others. Jose Abreu is a special player.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, Abreu is a stud.

I'm taking 1992-1994 Frank Thomas over almost anybody else that has played on either side of town since...probably WWII.

_________________

No way. You take the bat and live with the average defense. Frank's hitting ability is an all-timer.

_________________
Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

The difference for me isn't anything on the field. I'm not a guy who considered Frank a terrible fielder. He wasn't good when he had to throw, other than that he was fine at first, certainly adequate.

Like I said, Frank is the greatest White Sox player ever. There really isn't any argument on the numbers. But he isn't a guy you could build a team around. He was happier losing the game and going 4 for 4 than winning and taking the collar.

Abreu is a winning type player.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Abreu is very good, but Frank Thomas's first 8 seasons may be the greatest any slugger put together in the last 50 years of baseball



Frank Thomas from 1990-1997 was a better hitter than Mike Trout

If you want to argue that Jose Abreu is better than Pau Konerko, I can agree, but better than Frank? hell no

_________________
“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I disagree that you couldn't build a team around Frank.

I do agree that Abreu does everything he can to win.

Which is why in this hypothetical scenario, I'm putting Mark Buehrle on the bump for game 1.

_________________

I will go to my grave thinking Frank hurt himself by being a Charlie Lau front foot hitter.

This is baseball. There's no "building around a player" like in basketball and football. It's basically a 1v1 matchup between the hitter and pitcher, with defense having a small impact on it obviously. You need a lot of really good players to win, but you don't need to build a team specifically around a player.

The 1994 team was built to win. Frank had an OPS north of 1.200 that year. 38 homers in 113 games. The guy was an absolute machine that year. Frank would be the 1st baseman on every damn team in the league during some of his prime years if they could choose. I can't believe we're talking about a 2 time MVP as a guy you "wouldn't build around".

If Frank didn't swing, it was a ball. Rightly or wrongly.

Winning pitcher Abreu has played for one above .500 team.

I know we joke about it but I'm not sure Abreu is better than Rizzo. I think they are comparable over their careers.

No Abreu is not better than Frank, nor is any other Sox player I have personally witnessed.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Rizzo had the better front half, Abreu is having the better back half. I think when its all said and done, Abreu will have had the superior career. Maybe not FAR SUPERIOR, but superior for sure.

_________________

Finally the voice of reason in this discussion.

Abreu and Rizzo are both good players and both appear to be really important leaders to their teams. And that is worth a lot.

But neither is even close to Frank.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Suggesting Abrue is better than Frank Thomas might be a top 5 worst sports take in the history of this board....

That didn't happen here, remedial Bob. Jorr said he would take Abreu over Frank Thomas if he were starting a team. He also said that Big Frank is undoubtedly the best player in Sox history.

_________________