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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:31 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Brick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
This is what I'm concerned about. Penicillin was invented. Now we have super strong bacterium resistant to antibiotics. Why? Because we overprescribed antibiotics for common stuff that one's own body can, 99.97% of the time, can be taken care of b our bodies. Let's not go down that road again with common flu and common colds.
Antibiotics, actually bad?

That's a new one.

Can you read?

What does "Let's not go down that road again" mean if it isn't from a belief that it was a mistake?

Over prescribing.
Quote:
What Happens When Antibiotics Are Overused?

Taking antibiotics too often or for the wrong reasons can change bacteria so much that antibiotics don't work against them. This is called bacterial resistance or antibiotic resistance. Some bacteria are now resistant to even the most powerful antibiotics available.

Antibiotic resistance is a growing problem. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) calls it "one of the world's most pressing public health problems."


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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:33 pm 
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Well yes, I don't think we should misuse vaccines either. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:36 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Well yes, I don't think we should misuse vaccines either. :lol:


can you get high off them ?


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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:36 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
As I said earlier, I am not shaming anyone. Ignore those people. But please be objective in your risk assessment of whether you should get it. The evidence is there, and it is overwhelming.



It's not though. You're choosing to ignore scientists like the guy being interviewed in the clip I linked, the guy who just happened to invent mRNA technology.

All the doctors and scientists from Stanford- Battacharya, Ionnadis, Atlas, etc. who had opinions that contradicted Fauci were censored and removed from Big Tech platforms. Guess what? They all turned out to be correct.

This isn't as clear cut "VERY SAFE" the way you and Brick are claiming. But I can understand why you might think so. The people in power are making it very difficult to get any information that may contradict the premature verdict of "VERY SAFE".

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:39 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The point is there are valid reasons not to take the vaccines.
Then don't say you aren't arguing against the vaccine.


:lol: I'm getting Bricked here. Do you need another vaccine? I'll come to your house and drive you to the appointment.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:41 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The trials were obviously much shorter and less extensive than is typical. It was called Operation Warp Speed not Operation Careful and Precise.
But that doesn't automatically make it dangerous or unsafe, which is what you and MANY others are arguing even though you say you aren't.



I'm not arguing that. I don't know and I'm saying you don't know and Fauci doesn't know. There are reasons to believe the vaccines aren't COMPLETELY safe, and for many maybe not even acceptably safe.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:42 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You're choosing to ignore scientists
Aren't you doing the same thing and listening to those only who support you position?

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:44 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You're choosing to ignore scientists
Aren't you doing the same thing and listening to those only who support you position?



Not at all. I'm listening to everything and assessing my own risks. I would encourage everyone else to do likewise. I don't care if you're vaccinated or not. But it seems people have a pressing interest in whether or not Anthony Rizzo and I are.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:52 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You're choosing to ignore scientists
Aren't you doing the same thing and listening to those only who support you position?



Not at all. I'm listening to everything and assessing my own risks. I would encourage everyone else to do likewise. I don't care if you're vaccinated or not. But it seems people have a pressing interest in whether or not Anthony Rizzo and I are.

What needs to happen for you to believe that the vaccine is safe?

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:54 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Well yes, I don't think we should misuse vaccines either. :lol:

Like COVID vaxxing children. I agree it should not be an option. Let's not go down the same road as antibiotics for sore throats just because Brick can't take being uncomfortable. And now an inappropriate emoji.... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:58 pm 
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i know the real issue I have with vaccinations and the full-court press being applied to get them is including children. Children are not at risk in the least, yet they are being swept up in all this and being vaccinated by the millions for no logical reason. I have chosen not to get the vaccine for my own reasons and can handle the blow-back and shaming for being a bad citizen, but I feel bad for the kids who have no say in the matter being herded up for the "greater good" and in an effort to inflate the vaccination totals since it is clear anyone who wants one at this point has already had one.


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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:08 pm 
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"The Greater Good" is the #1 symptom for the disease known as liberalism, for which there is no vaccine or treatment.


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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:17 pm 
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The exact strategy the government used for inoculation tells you exactly who is least at risk. I can't really think of a specific reason not to have a kid get the vaccine but just the same can't think of a good reason to either.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:19 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
The exact strategy the government used for inoculation tells you exactly who is least at risk. I can't really think of a specific reason not to have a kid get the vaccine but just the same can't think of a good reason to either.

Frivolous medical procedures have unintended consequences? Like frivolous use of antibiotics?


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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:23 pm 
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Before COVID, it was always considered medical malpractice to test someone for a virus when they showed zero symptoms, but viola!


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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:38 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
As I said earlier, I am not shaming anyone. Ignore those people. But please be objective in your risk assessment of whether you should get it. The evidence is there, and it is overwhelming.



It's not though. You're choosing to ignore scientists like the guy being interviewed in the clip I linked, the guy who just happened to invent mRNA technology.

All the doctors and scientists from Stanford- Battacharya, Ionnadis, Atlas, etc. who had opinions that contradicted Fauci were censored and removed from Big Tech platforms. Guess what? They all turned out to be correct.

This isn't as clear cut "VERY SAFE" the way you and Brick are claiming. But I can understand why you might think so. The people in power are making it very difficult to get any information that may contradict the premature verdict of "VERY SAFE".


The studies had 30,000 people in each. That is a large enough sample size to determine safety. And even if you discount all the studies, the broad administration of the vaccines, over 50% in Illinois adults, is a real world experiment. And deaths from Covid have dropped to the lowest level, while the vaccines do not appear to be killing anyone.

I know better than anyone that the side effects can suck. But the balance of the evidence is clearly in favor of getting the shots. I know confirmation bias is tough to fight.

I have no horse in this fight. I merely posted after watching the Bernsie clip where it is silly for someone to say they have not received the vaccine because they are still educating himself. Just ask your doctor.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:42 pm 
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Fauci is a doctor Dennis. He's been wrong or outright lied about more than one thing during this. Do you trust what he says when he speaks about this ?

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Last edited by badrogue17 on Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:44 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Before COVID, it was always considered medical malpractice to test someone for a virus when they showed zero symptoms, but viola!
What is it considered when you say you will never get a vaccine and carry on for months shaming people who say they want to get one, then run out in early April and get one yourself?

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:53 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
As I said earlier, I am not shaming anyone. Ignore those people. But please be objective in your risk assessment of whether you should get it. The evidence is there, and it is overwhelming.



It's not though. You're choosing to ignore scientists like the guy being interviewed in the clip I linked, the guy who just happened to invent mRNA technology.

All the doctors and scientists from Stanford- Battacharya, Ionnadis, Atlas, etc. who had opinions that contradicted Fauci were censored and removed from Big Tech platforms. Guess what? They all turned out to be correct.

This isn't as clear cut "VERY SAFE" the way you and Brick are claiming. But I can understand why you might think so. The people in power are making it very difficult to get any information that may contradict the premature verdict of "VERY SAFE".


The studies had 30,000 people in each. That is a large enough sample size to determine safety. And even if you discount all the studies, the broad administration of the vaccines, over 50% in Illinois adults, is a real world experiment. And deaths from Covid have dropped to the lowest level, while the vaccines do not appear to be killing anyone.

I know better than anyone that the side effects can suck. But the balance of the evidence is clearly in favor of getting the shots. I know confirmation bias is tough to fight.

I have no horse in this fight. I merely posted after watching the Bernsie clip where it is silly for someone to say they have not received the vaccine because they are still educating himself. Just ask your doctor.


I'm not talking about side effects immediately following vaccination. I'm talking about immune system issues down the road.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:10 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Fauci is a doctor Dennis. He's been wrong or outright lied about more than one thing during this. Do you trust what he says when he speaks about this ?


I am skeptical of anything said by a politician or those directly reporting to a politician. I am skeptical of Fauci.

That being said, on balance, the FDA and the overall testing regime that we have has done a good job at approving drugs that have the proper cost benefit. I have an undergraduate degree in BioChem so I fully understand all the terminology being bandied about in the media. I also sit on 3-5 conference calls per week on life sciences companies that are developing drugs in various phases of FDA approval. So I am well informed on what is going on with cutting edge research.

At the end of the day, it is wholly your decision whether or not to get the shots. I have done my own research and despite being skeptical, I made my call. The toughest call for me was getting the second shot after such terrible side effects from the first one. All of the data show that Covid is much more dangerous than anything associated with the vaccine.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:14 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
As I said earlier, I am not shaming anyone. Ignore those people. But please be objective in your risk assessment of whether you should get it. The evidence is there, and it is overwhelming.



It's not though. You're choosing to ignore scientists like the guy being interviewed in the clip I linked, the guy who just happened to invent mRNA technology.

All the doctors and scientists from Stanford- Battacharya, Ionnadis, Atlas, etc. who had opinions that contradicted Fauci were censored and removed from Big Tech platforms. Guess what? They all turned out to be correct.

This isn't as clear cut "VERY SAFE" the way you and Brick are claiming. But I can understand why you might think so. The people in power are making it very difficult to get any information that may contradict the premature verdict of "VERY SAFE".


The studies had 30,000 people in each. That is a large enough sample size to determine safety. And even if you discount all the studies, the broad administration of the vaccines, over 50% in Illinois adults, is a real world experiment. And deaths from Covid have dropped to the lowest level, while the vaccines do not appear to be killing anyone.

I know better than anyone that the side effects can suck. But the balance of the evidence is clearly in favor of getting the shots. I know confirmation bias is tough to fight.

I have no horse in this fight. I merely posted after watching the Bernsie clip where it is silly for someone to say they have not received the vaccine because they are still educating himself. Just ask your doctor.


I'm not talking about side effects immediately following vaccination. I'm talking about immune system issues down the road.



No one has the answer to this question.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:17 pm 
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But just as you people mock those who believe Fauci and the FDA or whatever sayin "Its safe," you guys are turning around saying, "Oh its dangerous long term."

Its the exact same thing, just the other side of the coin.

What should we have done? Throw caution to the wind and let Covid run amok and see what happened? I know with lockdowns and whatever we pretty much did the exact opposite, but now we have a vaccine and cases and deaths have fallen far quicker than they ever rose.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:24 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
As I said earlier, I am not shaming anyone. Ignore those people. But please be objective in your risk assessment of whether you should get it. The evidence is there, and it is overwhelming.



It's not though. You're choosing to ignore scientists like the guy being interviewed in the clip I linked, the guy who just happened to invent mRNA technology.

All the doctors and scientists from Stanford- Battacharya, Ionnadis, Atlas, etc. who had opinions that contradicted Fauci were censored and removed from Big Tech platforms. Guess what? They all turned out to be correct.

This isn't as clear cut "VERY SAFE" the way you and Brick are claiming. But I can understand why you might think so. The people in power are making it very difficult to get any information that may contradict the premature verdict of "VERY SAFE".


The studies had 30,000 people in each. That is a large enough sample size to determine safety. And even if you discount all the studies, the broad administration of the vaccines, over 50% in Illinois adults, is a real world experiment. And deaths from Covid have dropped to the lowest level, while the vaccines do not appear to be killing anyone.

I know better than anyone that the side effects can suck. But the balance of the evidence is clearly in favor of getting the shots. I know confirmation bias is tough to fight.

I have no horse in this fight. I merely posted after watching the Bernsie clip where it is silly for someone to say they have not received the vaccine because they are still educating himself. Just ask your doctor.


I'm not talking about side effects immediately following vaccination. I'm talking about immune system issues down the road.



No one has the answer to this question.

Why would there be immune system issues down the road?

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:27 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
But just as you people mock those who believe Fauci and the FDA or whatever sayin "Its safe," you guys are turning around saying, "Oh its dangerous long term."

Its the exact same thing, just the other side of the coin.

:lol: :lol: Sssshhhh!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:30 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Before COVID, it was always considered medical malpractice to test someone for a virus when they showed zero symptoms, but viola!
What is it considered when you say you will never get a vaccine and carry on for months shaming people who say they want to get one, then run out in early April and get one yourself?


I got the vaccine when everyone in the County 16 and over was eligible because they had an abundance of supply. They were handing it out like candy, or like Tampons in a men's room of a woke school or Frankies purse. What is it considered when you lie about your job to shove old people out of the way months ahead of time to get the vaccine?


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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:32 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
I got the vaccine when everyone in the County 16 and over was eligible because they had an abundance of supply.
Finally you admit you ran out and got the vaccine as soon as you possibly could. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:41 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
denisdman wrote:
As I said earlier, I am not shaming anyone. Ignore those people. But please be objective in your risk assessment of whether you should get it. The evidence is there, and it is overwhelming.



It's not though. You're choosing to ignore scientists like the guy being interviewed in the clip I linked, the guy who just happened to invent mRNA technology.

All the doctors and scientists from Stanford- Battacharya, Ionnadis, Atlas, etc. who had opinions that contradicted Fauci were censored and removed from Big Tech platforms. Guess what? They all turned out to be correct.

This isn't as clear cut "VERY SAFE" the way you and Brick are claiming. But I can understand why you might think so. The people in power are making it very difficult to get any information that may contradict the premature verdict of "VERY SAFE".


The studies had 30,000 people in each. That is a large enough sample size to determine safety. And even if you discount all the studies, the broad administration of the vaccines, over 50% in Illinois adults, is a real world experiment. And deaths from Covid have dropped to the lowest level, while the vaccines do not appear to be killing anyone.

I know better than anyone that the side effects can suck. But the balance of the evidence is clearly in favor of getting the shots. I know confirmation bias is tough to fight.

I have no horse in this fight. I merely posted after watching the Bernsie clip where it is silly for someone to say they have not received the vaccine because they are still educating himself. Just ask your doctor.


I'm not talking about side effects immediately following vaccination. I'm talking about immune system issues down the road.



No one has the answer to this question.

Why would there be immune system issues down the road?


Unfortunately, experts still know very little about the vaccines' effects in this population. Immunocompromised people were not included in any clinical trials, so it will be several months before conclusive data can vouch for the vaccines' safety for this group. In terms of Pfizer's and Moderna's vaccines, the theory is that because mRNA vaccines do not contain live or weakened virus, they should be safer than some traditional vaccines. But experts don't know this for sure. No data are yet available for J & J's vaccine, either.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:43 pm 
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Those people already had immune issues.

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:45 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Those people already had immune issues.



Yeah, but there was no testing of the virus done on them so how would you know ANY potential issues they might have from the vaccine?

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 Post subject: Re: More Vaccine Talk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:45 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Unfortunately, experts still know very little about the vaccines' effects in this population. Immunocompromised people were not included in any clinical trials, so it will be several months before conclusive data can vouch for the vaccines' safety for this group. In terms of Pfizer's and Moderna's vaccines, the theory is that because mRNA vaccines do not contain live or weakened virus, they should be safer than some traditional vaccines. But experts don't know this for sure. No data are yet available for J & J's vaccine, either.
Wait a second, so the several months of research they had on the Covid vaccines isn't enough sample size, but the several months of research that is going to be available on Immunocompromised people will be just fine for you?

Sheesh.

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