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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:31 am 
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This is one helluva read. Particularly with all of the current stuff involving Afghanistan. It's tough remembering just how much European players were shunned back in the day in the NBA. The only player that was universally revered among European players was Sabonis and he didn't come over til he was on the downside of his career.
https://www.nba.com/bulls/features/toni ... thrive-nba


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Vlade (Divac) got to play because Kareem retired, but Drazen is in Portland and not a minute of playing time. They are playing guys who are garbage behind (Terry) Porter and (Clyde (Drexler) and he's not playing? So what am I going to do with the NBA champions in the game?" Kukoc said he was asked by many. "‘Phil (Jackson) is not going to look my way.' I am going to sit on the bench and not close to going in there. That is the fear everyone had wasting our careers, signing for three or four years to say, ‘I sat with Magic and Worthy cheerleading.' There was always this question. Should we go? They cannot guarantee we will get a chance. But we thought if we bring our stuff, which obviously rocks because we were playing against U.S. national teams and we are kicking ass. So we decided we just must be good enough; there must be something."

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:54 am 
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I never thought he was as good as advertised ( thank Krause for that ) although it might have been a little tough to judge how good he could’ve been had he not been playing with who he was playing with but he certainly seem to have a winners mentality based on those quotes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:00 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
I never thought he was as good as advertised ( thank Krause for that ) although it might have been a little tough to judge how good he could’ve been had he not been playing with who he was playing with but he certainly seem to have a winners mentality based on those quotes


C'mon, man. The dude was legit. Point forward at 6'11, clutch as hell (4 game winners in his rookie season alone, including against NY in the playoffs), and then provided another dimension to the three point offense that no one else on the team could provide outside of Jordan and Pippen.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:03 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
I never thought he was as good as advertised ( thank Krause for that ) although it might have been a little tough to judge how good he could’ve been had he not been playing with who he was playing with but he certainly seem to have a winners mentality based on those quotes


Yeah he was never as good as Krause hyped him to be but he was still a good player. The Pippen stuff did him no favors either.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:55 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:37 am 
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Pretty good for 26.3 minutes a game.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:57 am 
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He was getting lit up by who he was guarding, so he only played 26 minutes a game.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:31 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
I never thought he was as good as advertised ( thank Krause for that ) although it might have been a little tough to judge how good he could’ve been had he not been playing with who he was playing with but he certainly seem to have a winners mentality based on those quotes


C'mon, man. The dude was legit. Point forward at 6'11, clutch as hell (4 game winners in his rookie season alone, including against NY in the playoffs), and then provided another dimension to the three point offense that no one else on the team could provide outside of Jordan and Pippen.


He would have been better in this generation of the NBA with the new rules. Still a very good player that lacked old NBA defensive skills.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:47 am 
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Career stats miss the point, I am talking about his Bulls tenure. Krause was in fact right about him - the Bulls are not winning the second three-peat without Toni.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:35 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Career stats miss the point, I am talking about his Bulls tenure. Krause was in fact right about him - the Bulls are not winning the second three-peat without Toni.


Krause wasn't correct about him. He billed him as a Luka Doncic type talent prior to his arrival. He wasn't that but he was still a solid piece though.

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Technically I was drunk (big surprise) and asked her if she liked a tongue up her ass.


Frank Coztansa wrote:
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:37 am 
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Kukoc was definitely the best smoker on the team. Those Euro Marlboro Reds go down like candy. Jay Cutler got nothing on him. Now Mark Grace.... well that man could suck down a pack like nobodies business. Next week on famous Chicago athlete smokers is Dennis Savard and Bobby Orr


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:27 am 
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The Missing Link wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Career stats miss the point, I am talking about his Bulls tenure. Krause was in fact right about him - the Bulls are not winning the second three-peat without Toni.


Krause wasn't correct about him. He billed him as a Luka Doncic type talent prior to his arrival. He wasn't that but he was still a solid piece though.



Could Doncic have weathered Jordan's abuse?

And that's before he would have had to settle for 50% less of the shots that he currently enjoys.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:35 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
The Missing Link wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Career stats miss the point, I am talking about his Bulls tenure. Krause was in fact right about him - the Bulls are not winning the second three-peat without Toni.


Krause wasn't correct about him. He billed him as a Luka Doncic type talent prior to his arrival. He wasn't that but he was still a solid piece though.



Could Doncic have weathered Jordan's abuse?

And that's before he would have had to settle for 50% less of the shots that he currently enjoys.


His 1st 2 years in the league were not with Jordan. He still was not as good as Doncic. Nowhere near.

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pittmike wrote:
Technically I was drunk (big surprise) and asked her if she liked a tongue up her ass.


Frank Coztansa wrote:
Again, your comprehension needs work.


Last edited by The Missing Link on Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:37 pm 
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Kukoc would be perfect for todays game. While I agree he is not as good as Luka, he would be closer to him if he had played in the current NBA

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:45 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Kukoc would be perfect for todays game. While I agree he is not as good as Luka, he would be closer to him if he had played in the current NBA


8 think so too.

The more free wheeling, offense heavy game would suit him much better.

Plus like Crest said, I don't know that Luka could handle being hated by his team and the league for simply being liked by the GM.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:52 pm 
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he did great given the circumstances and...bullying. pun intended.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:42 am 
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Toni was also ahead of his time. A point forward before it was cool. Nowadays everyone is a point forward.

Within the Bulls universe of 12-15 players, he was tier 1. The only guy after Jordan and Pip who could create his own shot. When pippen sat out the first 30 games or whatever of 1998 who do you think slid into the role of shouldering the burden of creating offense?

There was literally no one on that roster who couldn't score without the help of a screen or a set play except for Jordan pippen and kukoc.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:24 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Kukoc would be perfect for todays game. While I agree he is not as good as Luka, he would be closer to him if he had played in the current NBA


8 think so too.

The more free wheeling, offense heavy game would suit him much better.

Plus like Crest said, I don't know that Luka could handle being hated by his team and the league for simply being liked by the GM.


That wasn't the reason that he never panned out the way Krause envisioned him to be.

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pittmike wrote:
Technically I was drunk (big surprise) and asked her if she liked a tongue up her ass.


Frank Coztansa wrote:
Again, your comprehension needs work.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:26 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Toni was also ahead of his time. A point forward before it was cool. Nowadays everyone is a point forward.

Within the Bulls universe of 12-15 players, he was tier 1. The only guy after Jordan and Pip who could create his own shot. When pippen sat out the first 30 games or whatever of 1998 who do you think slid into the role of shouldering the burden of creating offense?

There was literally no one on that roster who couldn't score without the help of a screen or a set play except for Jordan pippen and kukoc.


Paul Pressey was a point forward "before it was cool" so was Larry Bird and a few others. Kukoc hardly revolutionized the position.

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pittmike wrote:
Technically I was drunk (big surprise) and asked her if she liked a tongue up her ass.


Frank Coztansa wrote:
Again, your comprehension needs work.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:19 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Kukoc would be perfect for todays game. While I agree he is not as good as Luka, he would be closer to him if he had played in the current NBA


8 think so too.

The more free wheeling, offense heavy game would suit him much better.

Plus like Crest said, I don't know that Luka could handle being hated by his team and the league for simply being liked by the GM.

What a load of crap. The guy is a generational talent, but he would be hated by his entire team and this would make him unable to play. So the team would hate this guy despite the fact that he would make the team basically unstoppable and a lock for the championship?

What evidence do you have that he wouldn't be able to handle it? Let me guess, old NBA tough new NBA soft.


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