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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:19 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
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It feels like some people (not MANY) are wishing he knowingly pointed a live gun at someone, in front of dozens of witnesses, and blew this lady away. Sorta weird.
Only because he mocked Trump

Do you really believe that?

Yes I believe there are some people who only want the book thrown at Baldwin because made fun of Trump. The evidence is here in this thread a little bit.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:25 pm 
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Damn. That's cold blooded.

Well, it didn't happen. Now all that's left is the usual virtue signaling and accusations of moral inferiority


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:28 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
It feels like some people (not MANY) are wishing he knowingly pointed a live gun at someone, in front of dozens of witnesses, and blew this lady away. Sorta weird.
Only because he mocked Trump

Do you really believe that?

Yes I believe there are some people who only want the book thrown at Baldwin because made fun of Trump. The evidence is here in this thread a little bit.

Nobody cares that he mocked Trump. The problem, more than anything else, is that he's killed someone. When people die as a result of your actions, you should prepare to be scrutinized.
Whether or not someone foolishly handed him a loaded weapon, he is ultimately the person responsible for that weapon once its handed to him.
It's unfortunate that some including yourself are reducing this to politics. This is not a political issue. Someone is dead. And it's not because of an impersonation.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:36 pm 
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New Mexico law.

Involuntary Manslaughter

"It would appear that under New Mexico law, Alec Baldwin could be guilty of involuntary manslaughter, which is a killing that takes place without due caution and circumspection," Nash told Newsweek.

https://www.newsweek.com/legal-experts- ... un-1641898

But, NM is broke and needs more films being 'shot' there.

Only mentally ill lefties like the killa. He's always been a douchebag worthy of our scorn.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:47 pm 
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Im not disagreeing with you, Darko

But Rogue doesnt start a "murderer" thread if Mike Lindell accidentally kills someone.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:49 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:52 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:53 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Im not disagreeing with you, Darko

But Rogue doesnt start a "murderer" thread if Mike Lindell accidentally kills someone.


He wouldn’t be able to beat you to it. That’s for sure.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:55 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Im not disagreeing with you, Darko

But Rogue doesnt start a "murderer" thread if Mike Lindell accidentally kills someone.

That sounds like an assumption. Do you think Lefty Mac or others would if Mike Lindell accidentally killed someone? And if they did, would they be wrong of Mike Lindell had actually in fact killed someone?
It's a shame that something like this is viewed thru a prism of politics.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:57 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Im not disagreeing with you, Darko

But Rogue doesnt start a "murderer" thread if Mike Lindell accidentally kills someone.

I know. But corporate media would. And Alec Baldwin would be raging too.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:03 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Im not disagreeing with you, Darko

But Rogue doesnt start a "murderer" thread if Mike Lindell accidentally kills someone.

I know. But corporate media would. And Alec Baldwin would be raging too.


And?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:09 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Im not disagreeing with you, Darko

But Rogue doesnt start a "murderer" thread if Mike Lindell accidentally kills someone.

That sounds like an assumption. Do you think Lefty Mac or others would if Mike Lindell accidentally killed someone? And if they did, would they be wrong of Mike Lindell had actually in fact killed someone?
It's a shame that something like this is viewed thru a prism of politics.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:11 pm 
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The people predisposed to dislike the MSM and Alec Baldwin already know the MSM is going to carry water for him and know that the MSM would vilify someone like Scott Baio if he shot someone.

The people predisposed to like the MSM and Alec Baldwin will defend him.

Are we uncovering any new ground here? Garbage in, garbage out just like it's always been and always will be.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:21 pm 
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Nothing ever changes so stick to cum everyone. Nothing to discuss here.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:30 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nothing ever changes so stick to cum everyone. Nothing to discuss here.


Am I wrong? Seems to be playing out exactly as I predicted.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:53 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
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Seems pretty clear that Baldwin wasn't at fault...

https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-w ... story.html


He'll still end up paying for the wrongful death suit over their LLC's and his individual insurance coverage. Difficult to think of a better scenario for piercing an LLC's protections than where a member of
the LLC is the primary participant causing the damage. But that might not be the case in New Mexico. He'll get counter or cross or whatever sued by the other members to recoup any damages they get hit with. Half the plaintiff's bar in NM chubbed up when they heard a hollywood actor killed one person
and injured another in their backyard. Everbody on set that day will be filing some sort of action against Baldwin and the production company.



I was referring to the criminal side Hussra.

But you are absolutely correct about the civil part of this, if you hate Alec Baldwin, he may end up penniless when this is all over.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:56 pm 
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Here's a legal question... say your brakes fail and you kill a pedestrian at a crossing. But when they investigate they find you've never had maintenance on your brakes and they failed because you never got them fixed.
Can you be held criminally liable for that?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:01 pm 
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DS, obviously no one would question your take on protocols (unless that person is trained himself) but movie/film production is a different universe. Actors/Actresses are almost always untrained/ignorant of weapons training (unless such training is required to enhance the realism of scenes (e.g. how your hold a gun, how you handle it, etc.)). In other words, while in the real world you triple check a gun before aiming/firing following specific steps, etc., no actor is doing that in a film universe. Mitigating risk is always the job of someone else other than the actor, and again no one expects that the prop (and it's important to note that guns are props in film, not actual weapons) is actually lethal. That the prop was lethal in this case means the spotlight should be pointed to the chain of custody - the supposedly trained professionals responsible for procuring, managing, preparing, and clearing the prop for that scene. Let's see what plays out but I can see Baldwin held accountable in his capacity as the producer or whatever he was for the movie but not as an actor/triggerman. If he had any managerial role over the folks responsible for negligence then he could be/should be held accountable.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:11 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
DS, obviously no one would question your take on protocols (unless that person is trained himself) but movie/film production is a different universe. Actors/Actresses are almost always untrained/ignorant of weapons training (unless such training is required to enhance the realism of scenes (e.g. how your hold a gun, how you handle it, etc.)). In other words, while in the real world you triple check a gun before aiming/firing following specific steps, etc., no actor is doing that in a film universe. Mitigating risk is always the job of someone else other than the actor, and again no one expects that the prop (and it's important to note that guns are props in film, not actual weapons) is actually lethal. That the prop was lethal in this case means the spotlight should be pointed to the chain of custody - the supposedly trained professionals responsible for procuring, managing, preparing, and clearing the prop for that scene. Let's see what plays out but I can see Baldwin held accountable in his capacity as the producer or whatever he was for the movie but not as an actor/triggerman. If he had any managerial role over the folks responsible for negligence then he could be/should be held accountable.

Vegan, I'm not a Hollywood type, but in my opinion, the set is still the real world. The fantasy world isn't there until after the director yells cut, the film is edited and printed and shown on the screen. Actors are trained how to fall, how to throw a punch or a kick, and if you're going to have an actor hold a weapon it takes literally 5 minutes to train them 4 simple rules.

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Last edited by Darkside on Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:12 pm 
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Oh and the guns are props not real weapons comment is dead wrong. Many times, they are very real weapons.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:26 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Oh and the guns are props not real weapons comment is dead wrong. Many times, they are very real weapons.


I'm not a film guy either but having been involved in a super minor production years ago and being a contact of a handful involved in the industry let me try to phrase it this way: it is the job of someone (or several people, depending on the size of the production) to create safe working conditions. This involves reducing weapons like guns to mere props to comply with safe working conditions. This is what I meant by my comment and why I am insisting on the real world vs fake world dichotomy. That the fake world became very real in this case means to me people simply didn't do their jobs, not because the actor violated standard gun safety rules and whatnot. Now, as we learn more about the incident and it turns out that Baldwin did indeed violate protocol, then I'm happy to admit I'm dead wrong, but again the most likely thing to me is that some or all links in the prop chain of custody failed spectacularly. Again, the workplace is supposed to meet standard safety rules and regs. It didn't this time and I don't think it's because of the actor, that's typically not their job.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:26 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Here's a legal question... say your brakes fail and you kill a pedestrian at a crossing. But when they investigate they find you've never had maintenance on your brakes and they failed because you never got them fixed.
Can you be held criminally liable for that?


Short answer no. Long answer yes with a but.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:32 pm 
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Vegan... I don't really disagree with you much. As you know I'm a bit of a nerd and when I watch movies I pay attention to the weapons and how they're handled.. and reference internet firearms data base. It's ike imdb but for guns.

You're not wrong that an armorer or quartermaster should be in charge of prop guns, being real Guns with blanks or rubber guns and rubber knives. That person should never have had live ammo within a mile of on set firearms. I can't get my mind around what a live round was doing on that set or in the 400 meters around the gun for that matter.

I don't blame Baldwin completely no, there's plenty of blame to go around but again even a schmuck actor should check a gun handed to him in my opinion. I don't care if it's on a movie set. The rules still apply. The rules that, had they been followed, would have saved a life. Rules that take 5 seconds to perform.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:33 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Here's a legal question... say your brakes fail and you kill a pedestrian at a crossing. But when they investigate they find you've never had maintenance on your brakes and they failed because you never got them fixed.
Can you be held criminally liable for that?


Short answer no. Long answer yes with a but.

Thanks for clearing that up :lol:
If you have time for the long answer I have time to read it
This is the kind of stuff I don't know and am fascinated by.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:47 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Oh and the guns are props not real weapons comment is dead wrong. Many times, they are very real weapons.

Well there are non-guns that are designed specifically for when even a blank firing prop gun would put cast or crew in danger. The problem is sometimes they look funky on camera, like Fat Vito's comically small pistol used in the hit on Little Lord Fuckpants.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:49 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Here's a legal question... say your brakes fail and you kill a pedestrian at a crossing. But when they investigate they find you've never had maintenance on your brakes and they failed because you never got them fixed.
Can you be held criminally liable for that?


Short answer no. Long answer yes with a but.

Thanks for clearing that up :lol:
If you have time for the long answer I have time to read it
This is the kind of stuff I don't know and am fascinated by.


If you knew that you had no breaks and still drove and hit someone because you had no breaks then you could be criminally charged.

If you had no idea then you're in the clear. The law punishes bad intent, not bad outcomes..

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:49 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Here's a legal question... say your brakes fail and you kill a pedestrian at a crossing. But when they investigate they find you've never had maintenance on your brakes and they failed because you never got them fixed.
Can you be held criminally liable for that?


Short answer no. Long answer yes with a but.

Thanks for clearing that up :lol:
If you have time for the long answer I have time to read it
This is the kind of stuff I don't know and am fascinated by.


If you knew that you had no breaks and still drove and hit someone because you had no breaks then you could be criminally charged.

If you had no idea then you're in the clear. The law punishes bad intent, not bad outcomes..

does it punish bad spelling?

bad breaks :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:50 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Here's a legal question... say your brakes fail and you kill a pedestrian at a crossing. But when they investigate they find you've never had maintenance on your brakes and they failed because you never got them fixed.
Can you be held criminally liable for that?


Short answer no. Long answer yes with a but.

Thanks for clearing that up :lol:
If you have time for the long answer I have time to read it
This is the kind of stuff I don't know and am fascinated by.


If you knew that you had no breaks and still drove and hit someone because you had no breaks then you could be criminally charged.

If you had no idea then you're in the clear. The law punishes bad intent, not bad outcomes..

Then the issue becomes proving someone knew their brakes were bad...?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:55 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Here's a legal question... say your brakes fail and you kill a pedestrian at a crossing. But when they investigate they find you've never had maintenance on your brakes and they failed because you never got them fixed.
Can you be held criminally liable for that?


Short answer no. Long answer yes with a but.

Thanks for clearing that up :lol:
If you have time for the long answer I have time to read it
This is the kind of stuff I don't know and am fascinated by.


If you knew that you had no breaks and still drove and hit someone because you had no breaks then you could be criminally charged.

If you had no idea then you're in the clear. The law punishes bad intent, not bad outcomes..

does it punish bad spelling?

bad breaks :lol:

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:55 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Here's a legal question... say your brakes fail and you kill a pedestrian at a crossing. But when they investigate they find you've never had maintenance on your brakes and they failed because you never got them fixed.
Can you be held criminally liable for that?


Short answer no. Long answer yes with a but.

Thanks for clearing that up :lol:
If you have time for the long answer I have time to read it
This is the kind of stuff I don't know and am fascinated by.


If you knew that you had no breaks and still drove and hit someone because you had no breaks then you could be criminally charged.

If you had no idea then you're in the clear. The law punishes bad intent, not bad outcomes..

Then the issue becomes proving someone knew their brakes were bad...?


Yes. If you went to get an oil change and the tech told you you have no brakes it would be pretty easy to prove.

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