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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:05 am 
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That would mean Correa wouldn't be headed there. That's good news for the White Sox.


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:21 am 
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That's a fair deal for Ray.

Someone wake Hahn up.

For my money, Ray has the best stuff of all the FAs.

I have zero proof Scherzer is on the downside, but his nibbling is a sign he is. It was a terrible signing for the Mets.


I think that was more due to his arm being tired...he'll be fine. I don't think he'd want to sign in New York and deal with the abuse if he didn't feel he can perform.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:20 pm 
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6 years 140 million for Javy. I wonder what he turned down from the Cubs while he was there?

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:41 pm 
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Baez got a reality check, next up is KB

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:46 pm 
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Funny how Baez's OBP and OPS+ were FAR higher with the Mets than they ever were with the Cubs. Bad coaching?

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:47 pm 
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Did Theo every offer Baez an extension? I know they did with Bryant.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:54 pm 
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Warren Newson wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:


That would mean Correa wouldn't be headed there. That's good news for the White Sox.


I thought the same thing. That's bad money for Baez.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:56 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Did Theo every offer Baez an extension? I know they did with Bryant.


I thought I heard that he got offered something close to $200M or maybe slightly over.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:00 pm 
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I guess they did, but at least he's close to what the reported Tigers deal is.
Quote:
The Cubs were ready to pay shortstop Javy Báez entering last season.T

That's at least according to one report by ESPN's Buster Olney, who wrote Sunday the Cubs offered Báez an extension "somewhere in the range of $180 million" prior to the 2020 season.

The exact timing of that offer is unclear, but the Cubs and Báez were discussing an extension during 2020 spring training, prior to COVID-19 shutting the sports world down.
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/cubs/ ... sion-offer


As far as Kris Bryant goes though...
Image

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:08 pm 
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Warren Newson wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:


That would mean Correa wouldn't be headed there. That's good news for the White Sox.

Is he headed to the Yankees?

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:20 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:


That would mean Correa wouldn't be headed there. That's good news for the White Sox.

Is he headed to the Yankees?


Could be. They've been quiet thus far. I just don't think the Tigers are going to invest half a billion dollars in one position, but we live in interesting times.


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:02 pm 
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MLB is really going to fuck up labor relations for some reason.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:10 am 
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MLB is so petty.

They took off any current player photo's off mlb.com. Also, on MLB Network, not much talk today about players.


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:13 am 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
MLB is really going to fuck up labor relations for some reason.


They're probably going to fuck the players even more than they did in 2016.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:00 pm 
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Nas wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
MLB is really going to fuck up labor relations for some reason.


They're probably going to fuck the players even more than they did in 2016.

And the idiots in the commissioner's office sent out a letter claiming that the amounts just spent in free agency show that the MLBPA is the only side acting in bad faith.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:06 pm 
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There’s a mild irony that America’s pastime has gutted its middle class in favor of making some guys super rich and paying others as little as contractually allowable.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:11 pm 
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Sadly, that is life though. There are only a few guys that can consistently hit around .300 or belt 40 hr’s or have a sub-3.00 or whatever your preferred metric is like WAR. The rest are replaceable by the next man up for a cheaper salary.

It is why Jeff Bezos is super rich, and the warehouse employee gets $15/hour. You are welcome to replace Jeff Bezos if you can do what he did…..are you man enough though? :D

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:21 pm 
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Nas wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
MLB is really going to fuck up labor relations for some reason.


They're probably going to fuck the players even more than they did in 2016.

Only if the players cave...
I'm not clear on the exact sticking point for the players. I know they want a bigger piece of the revenue pie, but not sure how they plan on getting that....salary floor? reducing required service time?

Their biggest bargaining point should be on service time, but I don't think that's where they are digging their heels. If it is...good for them.

The owners requests of expanded playoffs are a horrible idea for baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:54 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
There’s a mild irony that America’s pastime has gutted its middle class in favor of making some guys super rich and paying others as little as contractually allowable.


As mentioned above, despite the star players of each team are earning millions, there are still lots of players who earn very little in comparison. This is the main reason why there is a minimum salary implemented in the MLB rules, in order to ensure those players get rewarded for their effort.

The MLB minimum wage established varies each year, having had a constant increase for the past fifteen years. The 2021 minimum salary was set at $570,500 dollars a year, having grown by 90% over the last 18 years.

Im not really feeling the paying the others as little as contractually possible. Theyre not exactly flipping burgers for 10 bucks an hour.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:14 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
There’s a mild irony that America’s pastime has gutted its middle class in favor of making some guys super rich and paying others as little as contractually allowable.


As mentioned above, despite the star players of each team are earning millions, there are still lots of players who earn very little in comparison. This is the main reason why there is a minimum salary implemented in the MLB rules, in order to ensure those players get rewarded for their effort.

The MLB minimum wage established varies each year, having had a constant increase for the past fifteen years. The 2021 minimum salary was set at $570,500 dollars a year, having grown by 90% over the last 18 years.

Im not really feeling the paying the others as little as contractually possible. Theyre not exactly flipping burgers for 10 bucks an hour.

The bottom line is that when there are continual bidding wars to stuff billions into the pockets of inept owners and the financials presented to the players aren't transparent, trust doesn't exist.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:19 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
There’s a mild irony that America’s pastime has gutted its middle class in favor of making some guys super rich and paying others as little as contractually allowable.


As mentioned above, despite the star players of each team are earning millions, there are still lots of players who earn very little in comparison. This is the main reason why there is a minimum salary implemented in the MLB rules, in order to ensure those players get rewarded for their effort.

The MLB minimum wage established varies each year, having had a constant increase for the past fifteen years. The 2021 minimum salary was set at $570,500 dollars a year, having grown by 90% over the last 18 years.

Im not really feeling the paying the others as little as contractually possible. Theyre not exactly flipping burgers for 10 bucks an hour.

Aren’t you outlining the terms of the contract their union has negotiated?

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:21 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Sadly, that is life though. There are only a few guys that can consistently hit around .300 or belt 40 hr’s or have a sub-3.00 or whatever your preferred metric is like WAR. The rest are replaceable by the next man up for a cheaper salary.

It is why Jeff Bezos is super rich, and the warehouse employee gets $15/hour. You are welcome to replace Jeff Bezos if you can do what he did…..are you man enough though? :D

I wasn’t prepared to compare my masculinity to ubermensch Bezos, so I’ll need some time to process.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:27 pm 
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HawaiiYou wrote:
MLB is so petty.

They took off any current player photo's off mlb.com. Also, on MLB Network, not much talk today about players.


They literally can't because with no CBA MLB no longer has rights to player likenesses and publicity. MLB network is owned by MLB so...


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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:28 pm 
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Ideally, baseball would split the revenues somewhere between 45/55-55/45. But as noted above, the trust factor is so low between the sides that the union does not want that. The teams are protective of their numbers, and there are accounting issues that cloud how you define profitability plus ancillary businesses that may not be on the teams’ books.

Beyond that, you need to ask yourself if owing a pro sports team is like any other business or just a public good. If you fall onto the side of any other business, then the owners have a right to try to earn a reasonable return on investment. Let’s be conservative and say the owner wants a 7% on the value of business. If a team is worth $2B, then they should expect $140M per year in profit. Now most of us would say that’s crazy because that should be invested into the on field product. And if you think like that, then the team is a public good to you.

I can see both sides.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:29 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
There’s a mild irony that America’s pastime has gutted its middle class in favor of making some guys super rich and paying others as little as contractually allowable.


As mentioned above, despite the star players of each team are earning millions, there are still lots of players who earn very little in comparison. This is the main reason why there is a minimum salary implemented in the MLB rules, in order to ensure those players get rewarded for their effort.

The MLB minimum wage established varies each year, having had a constant increase for the past fifteen years. The 2021 minimum salary was set at $570,500 dollars a year, having grown by 90% over the last 18 years.

Im not really feeling the paying the others as little as contractually possible. Theyre not exactly flipping burgers for 10 bucks an hour.


The highest paid player makes 100 times as much as the lowest paid player. I would say that's a pretty huge gap. That ignores the slave wage of most minor league players.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:32 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:34 am 
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Leury Garcia just signed a 16.5 million contract

the only real players with a beef are the guys in the first six years of playing time (seven if you screw players like the Cubs did) who weren't drafted in the first round. Those guys may never realize their true value because they are brought up later and enter free agency at an older age. That is where the real injustice is.

I would think they could come up with a system better than current arbitration that both values the team investment in player development while properly compensating the player. Stability of players with teams is valuable to both players and MLB so six years of control isn't the problem. It's the deflated salary.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:46 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Leury Garcia just signed a 16.5 million contract

the only real players with a beef are the guys in the first six years of playing time (seven if you screw players like the Cubs did) who weren't drafted in the first round. Those guys may never realize their true value because they are brought up later and enter free agency at an older age. That is where the real injustice is.

I would think they could come up with a system better than current arbitration that both values the team investment in player development while properly compensating the player. Stability of players with teams is valuable to both players and MLB so six years of control isn't the problem. It's the deflated salary.

The current CBA and the ones before it allow for veteran players to make very good money. The players union gave zero fucks on rookies and prospects entering the league. They should, but I think they're just going to look at the overall revenue pie and grab more. I don't think they'll focus on how that reflects on the younger players. Kind of what I was saying...I'm not sure what it exactly is they're fighting. I'm with them on this, but if they settle on another deal that allows journeyman players to sign Leury Garcia deals with the league minimum remaining garbage....they'll have accomplished nothing. There is plenty of money the owners are hiding....challenge is how to get it and spread it properly.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:49 am 
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BigW72 wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Leury Garcia just signed a 16.5 million contract

the only real players with a beef are the guys in the first six years of playing time (seven if you screw players like the Cubs did) who weren't drafted in the first round. Those guys may never realize their true value because they are brought up later and enter free agency at an older age. That is where the real injustice is.

I would think they could come up with a system better than current arbitration that both values the team investment in player development while properly compensating the player. Stability of players with teams is valuable to both players and MLB so six years of control isn't the problem. It's the deflated salary.

The current CBA and the ones before it allow for veteran players to make very good money. The players union gave zero fucks on rookies and prospects entering the league. They should, but I think they're just going to look at the overall revenue pie and grab more. I don't think they'll focus on how that reflects on the younger players. Kind of what I was saying...I'm not sure what it exactly is they're fighting. I'm with them on this, but if they settle on another deal that allows journeyman players to sign Leury Garcia deals with the league minimum remaining garbage....they'll have accomplished nothing. There is plenty of money the owners are hiding....challenge is how to get it and spread it properly.


No league cares about the younger players. Over the last 20 years the veteran players restructured the CBA in the NBA and NFL to fuck younger players so they could get more of the pie. The MLB won't make any dramatic changes to benefit younger guys beyond modifications to service time.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 Offseason
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:52 am 
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In my car time yesterday I heard some LoHo discussing this. His take was that he’s reflexively on the side of the players because he can envision himself as one of them but can’t do the same for ownership.

Immediately siding with one of these groups seems stupid. Thinking you can in any way relate to a professional baseball player during a labor dispute seems stupider.

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