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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:40 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
The minute they went to 4 team playoff the bowls were devalued. Previously the bowls were devalued when they were too many. Before that they were devalued when they threw out the weird fixed Big 8 #3 team vs. Pac 8 #5 team for "better" matchups. Bowls mean as much as they did at their peak relevance, which is still nothing unless you're a top 2 or 3 team. They're still just as entertaining because you have the MACtion type shootouts between teams you've never heard of, good games between good teams, and dog food games where some #5-#10 pedigree team is playing like they'd rather be anywhere else in the world at that moment, just like the old days

Saban said this back in 2015....he said, either have one system or the other, but not both a playoff and a bowl system.

I'm fine with both. There were some great games this year, and allegiances are a lot of fun. I just hope they don't try to turn this into the NFL.

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hnd
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:44 pm 
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once again, we can pretend the regular season in college football is important and interesting but its not. 1/3 of the season is basically complete garbage as constructed. you get a handful of meaningful Oregon/OSU type games that are on television but the rest of the top 25 teams are playing weber state and central michigan.

1/4 of all college football regular season games are 30+point blowouts. like 1/4-1/3 of them are <10 points.

I can't say a larger playoff field fixes that organically but i'm talking about the alleged special nature of the college football regular season. all because we are infatuated with the idea that the occasional underdog wins.
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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:46 pm 
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hnd wrote:
once again, we can pretend the regular season in college football is important and interesting but its not. 1/3 of the season is basically complete garbage as constructed. you get a handful of meaningful Oregon/OSU type games that are on television but the rest of the top 25 teams are playing weber state and central michigan.

1/4 of all college football regular season games are 30+point blowouts. like 1/4-1/3 of them are <10 points.

I can't say a larger playoff field fixes that organically but i'm talking about the alleged special nature of the college football regular season. all because we are infatuated with the idea that the occasional underdog wins.

There's no way you watch college football.

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Jbi11s
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:49 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Don’t love the bye setup but it theoretically gives ND a chance to host an easy playoff game. Maybe they’ll actually win something.


Image

ND-Utah would’ve moved meters this year.

Image

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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:49 pm 
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Besides, Central Michigan was good this year and will be even better next year.

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hnd
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:50 pm 
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you can pretend all you want. peoples affinity for their favorite teams shield them for the reality that the non conference schedule is basically garbage for the majority of games.
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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:52 pm 
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hnd wrote:
you can pretend all you want. peoples affinity for their favorite teams shield them for the reality that the non conference schedule is basically garbage for the majority of games.

I'm talking conference schedules

Non-conference games help smaller programs pay their bills. They're a necessity at this point. They also haven't stopped Alabama from winning when they need to.

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KDdidit
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:54 pm 
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And MANY point to the advent of the playoff system as where the best teams stopped finding it worth the risk to ever play tough OoC games.
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One Post
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:56 pm 
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Brick wrote:
One Post wrote:
Brick wrote:
One Post wrote:
Brick, there are tons of really good college basketball regular season games, way more really good regular season games in CBB than CFF, nobody is disputing that, they are good and entertaining and all of that.

They are also completely irrelevant in the larger context of the sport. That is, who wins or loses that really good game is completely irrelevant in the larger context of the CBB season.
They are only irrelevant if the only thing that matters is whether you make the tournament or not.

Then again, 95% of P5 and every game not involving Cincinnati this year outside of it had no tournament implications either. ND/Cincy decided the 4th team in the playoff. OSU/Michigan decided who would make the tournament. Georgia/Alabama didn't really matter but other games played by them did. You could say that Baylor/Ok State mattered but both finished far away from the playoff.

In a 12 team playoff, you likely have even more meaningful games as you have 12 teams building a resume to make it rather than 4.


If we follows your bold logic, then if we have 24 teams in the playoff there will be even more meaningful games because you have 24 teams trying to build a resume?

And we can go even further and say if we have 100 teams then there will be more meaningful games because you have 100 teams trying to build a resume?

Also, your CBB can't compete because of the NFL doesn't hold water in that CFB, which still probably has the most meaningful regular season in all of sports seems to compete just fine LITERALLY going head to head with the NFL.

Long ago CBB chose to sacrifice any relevance its regular season has at the expense of unquestionably the best post season tournament in sports. It's not a virtue or a vice, it is just what it is. For about 100 years college football had the most relevant regular season, and probably still does. If they mimic what CBB has done, then we know the regular season will be incrementally devalued with each team added to the post season tournament.

What a straw man argument. You want good teams.


Want good teams for what? A post season tournament? That's not what college football has been for it's first 100 years.

The more teams that you add to the tournament, the worse those teams are, it's just that simple. Now you add more teams, you just add more contrived chances for the top teams to lose. That's why the CFF regular season has so much importance, it's already the gauntlet you need to run.

I mean it's pretty simple, CBB has set up a system whereby after the regular season there is one large tournament to decide the champion. You can literally win zero regular season CBB games and make the field of 64, literally win zero regular season games and win the national title.
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hnd
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:02 pm 
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Wayne Kerr wrote:
hnd wrote:
you can pretend all you want. peoples affinity for their favorite teams shield them for the reality that the non conference schedule is basically garbage for the majority of games.

I'm talking conference schedules

Non-conference games help smaller programs pay their bills. They're a necessity at this point. They also haven't stopped Alabama from winning when they need to.


what other 1/4 of the schedule did you think i was referring to? and I clearly say it had nothing to do with fixing the playoff system, just throwing water on this magical regular season hubbub.

but you can fix smaller programs getting money. the NCAA will make more money when non conference games aren't 50 point blowouts. create a distribution system.
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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:18 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
And MANY point to the advent of the playoff system as where the best teams stopped finding it worth the risk to ever play tough OoC games.

Boise State started that when they got good.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:32 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Brick wrote:
One Post wrote:
Brick wrote:
One Post wrote:
Brick, there are tons of really good college basketball regular season games, way more really good regular season games in CBB than CFF, nobody is disputing that, they are good and entertaining and all of that.

They are also completely irrelevant in the larger context of the sport. That is, who wins or loses that really good game is completely irrelevant in the larger context of the CBB season.
They are only irrelevant if the only thing that matters is whether you make the tournament or not.

Then again, 95% of P5 and every game not involving Cincinnati this year outside of it had no tournament implications either. ND/Cincy decided the 4th team in the playoff. OSU/Michigan decided who would make the tournament. Georgia/Alabama didn't really matter but other games played by them did. You could say that Baylor/Ok State mattered but both finished far away from the playoff.

In a 12 team playoff, you likely have even more meaningful games as you have 12 teams building a resume to make it rather than 4.


If we follows your bold logic, then if we have 24 teams in the playoff there will be even more meaningful games because you have 24 teams trying to build a resume?

And we can go even further and say if we have 100 teams then there will be more meaningful games because you have 100 teams trying to build a resume?

Also, your CBB can't compete because of the NFL doesn't hold water in that CFB, which still probably has the most meaningful regular season in all of sports seems to compete just fine LITERALLY going head to head with the NFL.

Long ago CBB chose to sacrifice any relevance its regular season has at the expense of unquestionably the best post season tournament in sports. It's not a virtue or a vice, it is just what it is. For about 100 years college football had the most relevant regular season, and probably still does. If they mimic what CBB has done, then we know the regular season will be incrementally devalued with each team added to the post season tournament.

What a straw man argument. You want good teams.


Want good teams for what? A post season tournament? That's not what college football has been for it's first 100 years.

The more teams that you add to the tournament, the worse those teams are, it's just that simple. Now you add more teams, you just add more contrived chances for the top teams to lose. That's why the CFF regular season has so much importance, it's already the gauntlet you need to run.

I mean it's pretty simple, CBB has set up a system whereby after the regular season there is one large tournament to decide the champion. You can literally win zero regular season CBB games and make the field of 64, literally win zero regular season games and win the national title.

Well technically you can win 0 regular season games in college football and make the playoffs.

Both are equally likely to happen.

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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:33 pm 
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hnd wrote:
Wayne Kerr wrote:
hnd wrote:
you can pretend all you want. peoples affinity for their favorite teams shield them for the reality that the non conference schedule is basically garbage for the majority of games.

I'm talking conference schedules

Non-conference games help smaller programs pay their bills. They're a necessity at this point. They also haven't stopped Alabama from winning when they need to.


what other 1/4 of the schedule did you think i was referring to? and I clearly say it had nothing to do with fixing the playoff system, just throwing water on this magical regular season hubbub.

but you can fix smaller programs getting money. the NCAA will make more money when non conference games aren't 50 point blowouts. create a distribution system.

No, that was my bad. I see what you are saying now.

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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:38 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
And MANY point to the advent of the playoff system as where the best teams stopped finding it worth the risk to ever play tough OoC games.

Boise State started that when they got good.

Fresno State during the 70s and 80s

But complaints about playing cupcakes dates back to at least the 1980s.

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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:44 pm 
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TCU was like that for a while....maybe South Florida or UCF today

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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:49 pm 
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Wayne Kerr wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
And MANY point to the advent of the playoff system as where the best teams stopped finding it worth the risk to ever play tough OoC games.

Boise State started that when they got good.

Fresno State during the 70s and 80s

But complaints about playing cupcakes dates back to at least the 1980s.


I'm going to get pilloried for this, but I actually love watching the big blowouts where second and third stringers get some shine time a couple times a year. Just like watching teams getting flummoxed by Army and Navy each year.

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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:50 pm 
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Wayne Kerr wrote:
TCU was like that for a while....maybe South Florida or UCF today

Appalachian state did that what, twice?

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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:52 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Wayne Kerr wrote:
TCU was like that for a while....maybe South Florida or UCF today

Appalachian state did that what, twice?

At least twice. Michigan and the Chanticleers

One good thing about TCU and Boise State was that they had a killer rivalry for about ten years....

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good dolphin
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:54 pm 
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NIU was there as well, even beating Alabama.

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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:56 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
NIU was there as well, even beating Alabama.

19-16, at Bama!!

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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:58 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
NIU was there as well, even beating Alabama.


For whatever reason I just remembered an Illinois Michigan game in 81 or 82 where the illness jumped out to a 21-0 lead

Thought they had a shot and lost 70-21 iirc. :D

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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:06 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
For whatever reason I just remembered an Illinois Michigan game in 81 or 82 where the illness jumped out to a 21-0 lead

Thought they had a shot and lost 70-21 iirc. :D


I could take a pretty confident guess for the reason.

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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:18 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
For whatever reason I just remembered an Illinois Michigan game in 81 or 82 where the illness jumped out to a 21-0 lead

Thought they had a shot and lost 70-21 iirc. :D


I could take a pretty confident guess for the reason.

But but the next season I was pissed when they got pumped in Pasadena. And in 84 when I had season tickets.

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good dolphin
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:12 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
For whatever reason I just remembered an Illinois Michigan game in 81 or 82 where the illness jumped out to a 21-0 lead

Thought they had a shot and lost 70-21 iirc. :D


I could take a pretty confident guess for the reason.

But but the next season I was pissed when they got pumped in Pasadena. And in 84 when I had season tickets.


That Rose Bowl trip was a pretty big deal in Chicago. I was only in grade school and the pop radio stations made songs for them. Dahl even did a remote broadcast from California. I got one of those old time looking posters for the game as a promotional item from a sporting goods store. I wish I still had it as it would probably be worth good money.

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hnd
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:16 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
And MANY point to the advent of the playoff system as where the best teams stopped finding it worth the risk to ever play tough OoC games.


they still existed, but the games were even worse because math dictated much of the BCS.
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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:46 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
For whatever reason I just remembered an Illinois Michigan game in 81 or 82 where the illness jumped out to a 21-0 lead

Thought they had a shot and lost 70-21 iirc. :D


I could take a pretty confident guess for the reason.

But but the next season I was pissed when they got pumped in Pasadena. And in 84 when I had season tickets.


That Rose Bowl trip was a pretty big deal in Chicago. I was only in grade school and the pop radio stations made songs for them. Dahl even did a remote broadcast from California. I got one of those old time looking posters for the game as a promotional item from a sporting goods store. I wish I still had it as it would probably be worth good money.

It was nuts. The tv stations followed them from Lawry's to Disneyland to iirc, the Playboy mansion.

And then blamed the loss on the team "not having been focused".

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Drunk Squirrel
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:42 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
For whatever reason I just remembered an Illinois Michigan game in 81 or 82 where the illness jumped out to a 21-0 lead

Thought they had a shot and lost 70-21 iirc. :D


I could take a pretty confident guess for the reason.

But but the next season I was pissed when they got pumped in Pasadena. And in 84 when I had season tickets.


That Rose Bowl trip was a pretty big deal in Chicago. I was only in grade school and the pop radio stations made songs for them. Dahl even did a remote broadcast from California. I got one of those old time looking posters for the game as a promotional item from a sporting goods store. I wish I still had it as it would probably be worth good money.



I recall the The Fighting Illini in Pasadena parody of the Little old landy from but that is the only one. Was just a young lad at the time.
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Wayne Kerr
 Post subject: Re: CFP
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:14 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
NIU was there as well, even beating Alabama.


For whatever reason I just remembered an Illinois Michigan game in 81 or 82 where the illness jumped out to a 21-0 lead

Thought they had a shot and lost 70-21 iirc. :D

I actually remember this. They broke into another game to announce it.

Looks like Eason had them driving at 21-7. Then he threw an interception.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVwdwN5 ... eHistorian

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