Howe many years you wanna go back to show improvement? Go back 4 years- and show me the success for this year. It doesn't make any sense. That has nothing to do with the question "Is this season more succesful for Team A or Team B"?

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Success is improving your team and taking the next step. If you improve greatly from one season to the next it is a success. Using your criteria, only 1 team could be considered having a successful season. Do you feel that the Tigers or Indians feel that there season was just as successful or unsuccessful as the White Sox?

You don't seem to be understanding the point. The goal is to win the world series. The White Sox were far from that goal at the start of the season. They got much closer, and are setup much better for the future. They are a lot closer to a world series championship than they were in April. That's a success. If the Bears make the playoffs this year, will you consider the season a success or is winning the Super Bowl the only measure of success.


They do. The major differential in wins, and the fact that in those 162+ games they were better than everyone else in the division shows great improvement.


The fact that the Cubs and the Sox are in the same boat now is a great sign for a White Sox team that was left for dead after last year. The expectations for next year will be raised for the Sox to the same level of the Cubs, but a major gap in results was closed this year by the White Sox.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I believe one person posted a picture of a broom (not me). That's what all of this is based on?

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You're missing the point.

And you want to go back 4 years? Fine with me, lets go back 4 years. You will see a both teams with 2 playoff apperances in that span, and only one team with a World Series title.

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But my point is - since that WS title, using your standards, every season since then has been a failure. Can't have it both ways....

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Do you follow baseball? You really don't know what I meant by two "better" teams?
The Tigers and the Indians were considered the two that would fight for the AL Central title.


The twins season was not really a success since they won no hardware, but they did do some good things. They were written off after losing Santana but found a way to stay competitive. I would think that the Twins season would have been called a "success" if it had ended with an AL Central title.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

[/quote]
The only way for this to be "right" is also ask White Sox fans "Do you have exceedingly low expectations for your team?" and the answer must be "yes". In that case, congrats. Keep going on TV after the only game you attended all year and screaming into the microphone "At least we won more games than the Cubs did in the playoffs!!!" on your way home from the season-ending game.

Anybody else see this dozens of times on the local news the last couple of days? My personal fave is the guy that spent $50+ on a giant "L" flag to take to the Sox game on Monday.

Yippppeeeeee!!!!! [/quote]

You're right Spank. I truly expected Quentin to have a MVP-type season, and I also expected Danks and Floyd to be the top-two starters (performance-wise) this season.

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President of Blake Shetlon fan club

Mr Meatball, thats the thing. Seasons can be a success without winning a World Series. If the Rays lose to the BoSox, I would not consider thier 2008 a failure. Any team that finishes with a 72-90 record, then makes the playoffs the following season is a success

Despite losing the Super Bowl, I would not consider the 2006 Bears a failure. Even the 2007 Cubs are not a failure.

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im a cub fan.

cub fans really have to stop comparing this team to the white sox red sox or any other team that had a title drought.

The cubs situation is a unique one.

They have 101 years AND the whole "not trying to win" period that lasted thru at least the maddux exit.

The Red Sox were a winning team that always fell off at the end.
Even the White Sox had far better teams thru the 90's.
The cubs lost as an organization for decades.

So the Trib starts to spend money in the 2000's and thats great but it doesnt guarantee anything. Its hard to win a world series. Most Teams have been trying the whole time.

The whole pressure situation at wrigley is similiar to what Boston was like before 2004 but thats the only similiarity.

Boston didnt have a team across town win one.
Boston went to the playoffs almost every year for like 8 years before they won it.
Boston tried for decades. The cubs did not.
The white sox tried for decades the Cubs did not.


i dont know if or when the Cubs will breakthrough and win (make) a world series, but im sure that the cubs are in their own league of losing and making arguments about the cubs being better than anyone are old tired and ridiculous.

just how i see it.

I forgot. You picked the Dodgers to win the series. You were really concerned with Dodgers' starting pitchers in games 3/4.

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President of Blake Shetlon fan club

A voice of reason! What the hell are you doing posting on this thread. Don't you know it is reserved for meatballs and morons. Just look at the title of this thread and you'll realize how stupid it all is. For me..I won $50 bucks from my white sox neighbor because the cubs had more victories than the sox. That is $50 bucks in my pocket...and $50 out of his. I'll take that.

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.

Please refer to the title of this thread and who wrote it before typing anymore - thanks. The Sox fans are doing the comparing.....

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Let me get this right. The Cubs failed because expectations were higher. The Sox succeeded because expectations were lower. So Cubs fans expected their team to win it all where as Sox Fans had no thoughts of even making the playoffs.
This arguement is stupid!

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

I guess I'm done with this - you contradict yourselves in almost every post. Unless I missed the pre-season boat with the Twins - they were picked last or 2nd to last in the division by everyone - but finsihed tied for 1st after 162 games, losing 163 on the road. But - according to you - the Sox season is succesful because of this, and the Twins is not.

Huh? Moronic....

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Careful - you will be labeled "meatball" by the meatball princess for this comment.

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This makes no sense - no response.

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theres nothing wrong with rivalries with the white sox and arguing over whose team is better in a particular year or series or free agent signing. thats all great and i have fun doing it.

but overall if your a cub fan you understand that its not luck that they havent won in 100 years. they ve been trying for like 10...seriously.

its unique and i myself have fallen victim to the whole "the red sox did it or we need idiots like the red sox had in 2004 that are too dumb to feel pressure"

but then the more i think about it the more i realize the cubs would probably screw that up too.

future joe buck or dick stockton line if the cubs did go the idiot route:
"hese guys are so fun and the clubhouse was more like a frat house all year now theyre tight and you can hear a pin drop at wrigley"

they probably wil win one eventually but i used to think i knew what they should do but i dont anymore. it will probably happen when people least expect it...or never

with all that said they gotta keep trying and ill be watching sometimes cheering but mostly shaking my head in quiet disbelief.

p.s. fuck you andre dawson youre the reason i root for these losers. your 49 homers took advantage of a 7 yr old that thought home runs over a tru link fence were cool and had no idea about title droughts

I was actually going to ask you the same question next. Do you? Did you actually see the games that were played? Have you looked at the final standings? Unlike you, I'm not focused on preseason predictions - just the fact that both of those teams stunk in real life, and they were both in the AL central, w/ a 3rd crap team. So, did they actually outperform two better teams then? There were actually two good teams in that division - and please, remind me of the Sox record against that other team this year?

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Anytime you want to make a vaild point here, go ahead. You are no helping your cause here at all.

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Read em at your own pace - pretend all those letters you see are alphabet Spaghetti-O's - see what you can come up with. Call mommy down to the basement and have her make you some - with extra cheese, just the way you like it!

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and youre the one sitting here arguing with them when the clear facts are the sox exceeded expectations and the cubs did not

teams that got mentioned with world series before the season
cubs tigers indians angels mets red sox

teams picked for 3rd place or lower before the season
rays
white sox

its like this

patriots lost the super bowl huge dissapointment
if the giants would have lost it wouldnt have been 10% the failure that patriots was

its all expectations

I think this is what you meant.

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As soon as I see one, I'll let you know. I'm not getting my hopes up though. 15 or however many posts in this thread and you're 0fer.

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Frank, is this true?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

It's true, but he'll twist it around. I'm gonna go out on a limb (since he can't ) and say he'll twist it in the Sox favor. What do you think?

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Believe I had the Sox pegged for around 84 wins, and the Cubs for 88- both missing the playoffs.

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I'm sorry to hear that. I pegged you for more of a baseball sage than that.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Right, because so many people picked the Sox to make the playoffs. And how many picked the Tigers to win it all? How'd that work out

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Where is this contradiction? They didn't win the division. That's why I really couldn't call the season a success, but it clearly wasn't a failure either. The Sox won their division, even if it took a playoff. The Sox went to the playoffs, even if they didn't advance. You seem to be making the mistake that any improvement is defined as success. The Royals improved, but did not have a successful season. The Twins had a good season, but failed to deliver when it mattered most and therefore you can't call the season a success. You also can't call it a failure.

The Sox weren't thought to be a legitimate threat to win the AL Central, but they did. That's a success.
The Twins weren't thought to be a legitimate threat to win the AL Central, they came close, but they didn't. That's nice for them, but I don't know if I could call it a success. I certainly wouldn't call it a failure. That would be reserved for the Tigers and Indians.

There is no contradiction. I agree that the criteria can be subjective if looked at purely based off improvement from one season to the next. It however isn't subjective when you have a standard benchmark like winning your division that is achieved when it was thought to be highly unlikely at the start of the year. I don't see the contradiction.

What is moronic is your inability to admit that something Frank said actually may be right. I would expect even the most biased Cubs fan to understand that the White Sox made a great turnaround this year and made great strides to becoming a world series contender in the next few years. They didn't win the world series, but they put themselves in a position to compete for one as early as next year. Every White Sox fan on here would have taken that in April. That's why the season was a success, even if it didn't accomplish the ultimate goal of winning a world series championship. It's that simple.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Frank, I was speaking to the more obviously wrong pick, the Cubs not making the playoffs. Even I, a Cubs fan, pessimistic man pegged them for the wild card with the Brewers winning the central. As far as the Sox, I have nothing present on this board to back me up, but I did think the Sox would win the wild card.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.