I never said that. I'm not saying that now.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I'm going with Bobby Lamont. I'll take the OBP over the power.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I had thought that's a given, that's why the previous smart aleck post I made. The better the competition, the faster the evolution. Even back then, from talking to old timers, they knew the coloreds smashed the ball.

And this isn't about a quick twitch muscle as JORR has alluded to. It's about opportunities. And lack thereof. A black guy in the 20's is going to hang on HARD if he finds something, anything, he is good at. Doesn't mean a white guy won't either, but there's that extra edge that can be meaningful.

Pitching is still a white man's game, so cheer up.

I didn't know his dad was Ukrainian.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You are a trip, JORR.

I originally pointed out that segregation-era records should be questioned in the same manner that steroid-era records are and you responded that this isn't the case:



If this wasn't meant to defend segregation era records, then what was your point?

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I don't think segregation era records require defending unless you're suggesting- as Reader has- that a significant number of the best baseball players come from a subset made up of ten percent of the population at the time.

I do agree with Nardi's point that marginalized groups excel at sports because they often lack other opportunties. You can follow the waves of American immigration by the names of some of the best baseball players, first the Irish, then the Italians, up until today with the Dominicans.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

OK, so you are arguing for the validity of segregation-era records. Good talk.

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Without the injuries Ken Griffey Jr. would be in the conversation for one of the greatest of All time. That is how good he was. He was a better slugger and defender than Bonds. He would have easily hit 700 homers without the injury or the use of steroids. Even if a person prefers Bonds its tough to suggest that It "ain't even close".

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Judge is now the AL Single Season HR Champ. I am working 100% sure the op didn't know that when he titled his thread though. Accidentally correct is the only way he ends up being correct.

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None of us saw negro league baseball. All I can tell you is what I was told as a little kid. Reader is probably balls deep in negro league history. I wouldn't disregard what he says, 10% of the population or not. I have read where more than a few MLB teams signed guys only to make sure they didn't get out of the Bushes. There were certain guys with a boatload of skill they couldn't stop. Mays, Aaron, Howard, Doby... I mean, was there such a thing as a black scrub in the 50's and early 60's?

Not really. Bonds had an OPS at or north of 1.000 for his last 16 years. Griffey did it 4 times in 22 years.

Bonds had early Seattle Griffey on every metric, save for a couple years of slugging. Even in those years, Bonds’ ability to get on base was far superior. Peak Bonds was a significantly better base runner than peak Griffey. He’d already won 3 MVPs before the 4 tainted by steroids (Griffey had 1 his whole career).

Griffey was a better defender at a harder position.

It’s not an insult to Griffey to say his numbers don’t compare favorably with the greatest of all time. Nobody compares favorably to Bonds.

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Number one, as I noted, it's fact that the fifties and sixties where inordinately dominated by players who were barred prior to 1947. Two, when the gates were opened the talent pool was much greater and led to the golden age of the game. That's indisputable. Unlike the ridiculous and predictably irrational and right wing positions you've taken here. I didn't diminish Koufax, Mantle or any of the other greats of that time or going forward but rather that it enhances their great legacy. But in your peculiar anger you seem to only see it through your colored lens. That it's apparent to many around here seems to be lost on you. But you insist that everyone who isn't of your political bent has changed.

But in your usual fashion you have this zeal to defend a dead, half assed sport (era) that wasn't worth the adoration that angry old guys like you have hard ons for in the last few years. Then you are offended when you get called on your curious posts. Or ascribe meanings that are wrong, enabling MANY and flat out offensive. Maybe you should stick to Twitter inspired conspiracy in the politics section.

And being haunted by Hillary.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Sad thing is that neither were nearly as good in their postseason games. But yeah, Bonds was like Barry Sanders, Bonds or M Jeff, transcendent video game type talents.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Of course I am.

You're arguing for the innate superiority of black players. Whether you understand that's what you're doing or not.

If there were two high schools, one with 500 students and one with 50 and you told me that an inordinate number good players were in the smaller school, I'd ask you to explain your basis for that belief.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Yes.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Who said (besides yourself that is) that it is an "insult to Griffey"? Bonds was always a "great player". He didn't walk amongst the gods until he became roided up however.

Ken Griffey Jr. is the most naturally gifted baseball player that I have ever seen. Without the injuries he was well on a pace to hit 800 homers. With a superior glove at that.

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Looks like Judge will lose the triple crown today thanks to some dominant SP from the White Sox.

How do you expect Martin to win without run support?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Griffey Jr made baseball cool. Nuff said.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Griffey - flashier, made the game cooler, better fielder.
Bonds- better overall baseball player, less injury-prone

Griffey was Mantle, Bonds was Mays.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

Rickey Henderson made baseball cool. Nuff said.

Fixed that for you.

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Your statements above are utterly bizarre whether you understand that fact or not. Chinese musicians are becoming increasingly prominent in the world of classical music--and they are doing so at the expense of musicians of European ancestry. Is that because Chinese musicians are somehow genetically superior to musicians of European descent? Or is it because of social factors, including the massive investment in music conservatories made by the Chinese government, investments that come in the wake of reciprocal cutbacks to support for the performing arts in the U.S and Europe?. I'd say its the latter not the former. In the case of baseball, you immediately assume that the disproportionate success of blacks in the major leagues following the end of segregation must be explained by an argument based on racial determinism. Such an assumption reveals the reductiveness of your thinking on this issue since you never bother to consider how social factors such as segregation impacted black economic prospects, particularly by rendering professional baseball as a more appealing career pursuit for blacks than it was for most whites.

I should also note that you scoff at the idea that the arbitrary exclusion of 10% of a population from a competition could possibly call into question the results of that competition. Could you imagine what your response would be if 10% of eligible voters--all Trump supporters--were arbitrarily prevented from voting in the next presidential election?

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Krauts first

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Coal mining krauts

When discussing the current talent pool vs. the talent pool in the 50's and 60's, I'm surprised no one has mentioned international players. I don't think there were many Asian players coming over in the 50's and 60's. I also don't think the baseball factories that are currently cranking out players in Latin America were doing the same thing in the 50's and 60's. Whatever you think about the current domestic talent pool, MLB is drawing from a broader global talent pool than at any time in the past.

I think there were four (seriously). Only one lasted a year, a pitcher in the 60s

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Tony Gwynn is the best hitter I've ever seen, you got guys like schwarber pushing 50 hrs and 200ks.. keep it, not impressed.

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There's so many idiotic strawmen and piss poor analogies above, I'm not even going to bother responding to them. Are you actively trying to destroy your reputation as the Board Intellectual?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8