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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:54 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport. Joe Torre should get more love than he does. Having the best roster doesn't guarantee you anything in baseball's playoffs.

What did Joe Torre win when he wasnt manager of the best team in baseball?


More than the Dodgers and every other that's had the best team in baseball since. How many titles would Stengel have if he had to win 3 playoff series in order to win a World Series?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:01 am 
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Most of TLR's decisions were made by data geeks. What few on the run decisions TLR had to actually make he had to have a horrible right decision % compared to even a yesman talking parrot like grandpa Rossy who was not over his head during the game.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:22 am 
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Nas wrote:
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badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport. Joe Torre should get more love than he does. Having the best roster doesn't guarantee you anything in baseball's playoffs.

What did Joe Torre win when he wasnt manager of the best team in baseball?


More than the Dodgers and every other that's had the best team in baseball since. How many titles would Stengel have if he had to win 3 playoff series in order to win a World Series?

It's a weakness of baseball, this post season "tournament". It needs to be addressed. The "pennant winner" shouldn't have to play until the ALCS or NLCS. There is no reason for 162 otherwise. So this will never happen so go to 120. And again, that also will never happen so baseball will continue to die.

The Sport goes from the end of Feb to the beginning of Nov. Somebody better wake up and decide less is more.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:50 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
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badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport. Joe Torre should get more love than he does. Having the best roster doesn't guarantee you anything in baseball's playoffs.

What did Joe Torre win when he wasnt manager of the best team in baseball?


More than the Dodgers and every other that's had the best team in baseball since. How many titles would Stengel have if he had to win 3 playoff series in order to win a World Series?

It's a weakness of baseball, this post season "tournament". It needs to be addressed. The "pennant winner" shouldn't have to play until the ALCS or NLCS. There is no reason for 162 otherwise. So this will never happen so go to 120. And again, that also will never happen so baseball will continue to die.

The Sport goes from the end of Feb to the beginning of Nov. Somebody better wake up and decide less is more.


I'm a wildcard baby. That randomness and luck is a feature to me. I've already mentally added an asterisk to every title before 1969. In a few years I may bump that to 1993.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:50 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
team
badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport. Joe Torre should get more love than he does. Having the best roster doesn't guarantee you anything in baseball's playoffs.

What did Joe Torre win when he wasnt manager of the best team in baseball?


More than the Dodgers and every other that's had the best team in baseball since. How many titles would Stengel have if he had to win 3 playoff series in order to win a World Series?

It's a weakness of baseball, this post season "tournament". It needs to be addressed. The "pennant winner" shouldn't have to play until the ALCS or NLCS. There is no reason for 162 otherwise. So this will never happen so go to 120. And again, that also will never happen so baseball will continue to die.

The Sport goes from the end of Feb to the beginning of Nov. Somebody better wake up and decide less is more.


There's been a lot of crying this year that the playoff format is unfair to 100 win teams. On one hand, it's hard to be sympathetic, just win the damn series and you'll be fine. On the other hand, what's the point of 162 games when winning 100 puts you in the same boat as someone who won 80 something? If they want expanded playoffs, it really should come at the expense of the regular season.


Last edited by Warren Newson on Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:02 am 
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Warren Newson wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
team
badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport. Joe Torre should get more love than he does. Having the best roster doesn't guarantee you anything in baseball's playoffs.

What did Joe Torre win when he wasnt manager of the best team in baseball?


More than the Dodgers and every other that's had the best team in baseball since. How many titles would Stengel have if he had to win 3 playoff series in order to win a World Series?

It's a weakness of baseball, this post season "tournament". It needs to be addressed. The "pennant winner" shouldn't have to play until the ALCS or NLCS. There is no reason for 162 otherwise. So this will never happen so go to 120. And again, that also will never happen so baseball will continue to die.

The Sport goes from the end of Feb to the beginning of Nov. Somebody better wake up and decide less is more.


There's been a lot of crying this year that the playoff format is unfair to 100 win teams. On one hand, it's hard to be sympathetic, just win the dam series and you'll be fine. On the other hand, what's the point of 162 games when winning 100 puts you in the same boat as someone who won 80 something? If they want expanded playoffs, it really should come at the expense of the regular season.


It is a disadvantage to the 80 win teams. They've burned their best starters to advance and the 100 win team is well rested. The baseball Gods haven't favored the best teams since the playoffs were expanded. If you want to favor the 100 win team, you will need to go back to the system that existed before 1969.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:05 am 
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Nardi wrote:
The Sport goes from the end of Feb to the beginning of Nov. Somebody better wake up and decide less is more.
I agree. Same with the NBA & NHL.


Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport.
2016.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:09 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nardi wrote:
The Sport goes from the end of Feb to the beginning of Nov. Somebody better wake up and decide less is more.
I agree. Same with the NBA & NHL.


Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport.
2016.


Yes, Maddon is bad.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:15 am 
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Does anyone think with the canceling Sox Fest, there is gonna be a big sell off?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:18 am 
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Cashman wrote:
Does anyone think with the canceling Sox Fest, there is gonna be a big sell off?


Something major is going to happen. I don't think it'll be a white flag, though.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:35 am 
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Nas wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
team
badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport. Joe Torre should get more love than he does. Having the best roster doesn't guarantee you anything in baseball's playoffs.

What did Joe Torre win when he wasnt manager of the best team in baseball?


More than the Dodgers and every other that's had the best team in baseball since. How many titles would Stengel have if he had to win 3 playoff series in order to win a World Series?

It's a weakness of baseball, this post season "tournament". It needs to be addressed. The "pennant winner" shouldn't have to play until the ALCS or NLCS. There is no reason for 162 otherwise. So this will never happen so go to 120. And again, that also will never happen so baseball will continue to die.

The Sport goes from the end of Feb to the beginning of Nov. Somebody better wake up and decide less is more.


There's been a lot of crying this year that the playoff format is unfair to 100 win teams. On one hand, it's hard to be sympathetic, just win the dam series and you'll be fine. On the other hand, what's the point of 162 games when winning 100 puts you in the same boat as someone who won 80 something? If they want expanded playoffs, it really should come at the expense of the regular season.


It is a disadvantage to the 80 win teams. They've burned their best starters to advance and the 100 win team is well rested. The baseball Gods haven't favored the best teams since the playoffs were expanded. If you want to favor the 100 win team, you will need to go back to the system that existed before 1969.


With every round of the playoffs they add, they cheapen the regular season. You might as well admit reality, shave 12 games off the season, start the season two weeks later, and schedule three seven inning double headers to buy back the days you need for the Wild Card round.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:50 am 
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Nas wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
team
badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport. Joe Torre should get more love than he does. Having the best roster doesn't guarantee you anything in baseball's playoffs.

What did Joe Torre win when he wasnt manager of the best team in baseball?


More than the Dodgers and every other that's had the best team in baseball since. How many titles would Stengel have if he had to win 3 playoff series in order to win a World Series?

It's a weakness of baseball, this post season "tournament". It needs to be addressed. The "pennant winner" shouldn't have to play until the ALCS or NLCS. There is no reason for 162 otherwise. So this will never happen so go to 120. And again, that also will never happen so baseball will continue to die.

The Sport goes from the end of Feb to the beginning of Nov. Somebody better wake up and decide less is more.


There's been a lot of crying this year that the playoff format is unfair to 100 win teams. On one hand, it's hard to be sympathetic, just win the dam series and you'll be fine. On the other hand, what's the point of 162 games when winning 100 puts you in the same boat as someone who won 80 something? If they want expanded playoffs, it really should come at the expense of the regular season.


It is a disadvantage to the 80 win teams. They've burned their best starters to advance and the 100 win team is well rested. The baseball Gods haven't favored the best teams since the playoffs were expanded. If you want to favor the 100 win team, you will need to go back to the system that existed before 1969.

I'm unexpectedly not caring about this year's tournament. It's probably because I wanted an Astros/Dodgers Series. Clearly the only series anybody with a baseball ilk would want.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:00 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
You're not winning the World Series with a Robin Ventura or Brad Ausmus


Ned Yost won a World Series.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:05 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
It's why Billy Beane has his foot surgically attached to asses of his managers.


Beane just wants a guy to shut up and play the percentages. He doesn't want a manager who looks at a situation where X happens 70% of the time if you do Y and have him deciding that his gut tells him this is the moment to play for the 30%.

I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong. I think there is some value to a manager knowing and having a feel for his team and his players and that's a skill. Otherwise why not just have the shortstop read the computer.

I don't know if you believe Joe Maddon is a "good" or a "bad" manager, but this excerpt gets into the way baseball culture has changed:

https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/10/06/joe-m ... ok-excerpt

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:42 pm 
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Manager's duties aren't much, but they are important. They need to be managerial. And most of these fuckers are just ex-players. No manager should have a multi-year contract.

Steinbrenner had it right. Just keep firing guys.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:47 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nardi wrote:
It's why Billy Beane has his foot surgically attached to asses of his managers.


Beane just wants a guy to shut up and play the percentages. He doesn't want a manager who looks at a situation where X happens 70% of the time if you do Y and have him deciding that his gut tells him this is the moment to play for the 30%.

I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong. I think there is some value to a manager knowing and having a feel for his team and his players and that's a skill. Otherwise why not just have the shortstop read the computer.

I don't know if you believe Joe Maddon is a "good" or a "bad" manager, but this excerpt gets into the way baseball culture has changed:

https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/10/06/joe-m ... ok-excerpt

Anybody who bats the pitcher 8th, I don't want. I don't want a wannabe genius. It's not managerial.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:20 pm 
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Bat the pitcher 8th and Grandal 9th.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:50 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Bat the pitcher 8th and Grandal 9th.



8) 8)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:42 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I don't know if you believe Joe Maddon is a "good" or a "bad" manager, but this excerpt gets into the way baseball culture has changed.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/10/06/joe-m ... ok-excerpt

Maddon is a rare baseball manager who openly expresses how he feels about the game in depth. Grandpa Ross and his ilk just yap out scripted platitudes. But Maddon is the master BS-er constantly wanting the spotlight and to put himself in a good light. When his Cubs decisions were questioned by fans he said the intricacies were over fans scope of knowledge to fathom. In the SI article book excerpt he now says fans NEED to know how the hot dog is made behind the scenes in MLB when he doesn't have one managers job nibble. The guys always an interesting read how he puts his baseball expertise on a pedestal.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:04 am 
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vitoscotti wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I don't know if you believe Joe Maddon is a "good" or a "bad" manager, but this excerpt gets into the way baseball culture has changed.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/10/06/joe-m ... ok-excerpt

Maddon is a rare baseball manager who openly expresses how he feels about the game in depth. Grandpa Ross and his ilk just yap out scripted platitudes. But Maddon is the master BS-er constantly wanting the spotlight and to put himself in a good light. When his Cubs decisions were questioned by fans he said the intricacies were over fans scope of knowledge to fathom. In the SI article book excerpt he now says fans NEED to know how the hot dog is made behind the scenes in MLB when he doesn't have one managers job nibble. The guys always an interesting read how he puts his baseball expertise on a pedestal.


I'm not a Maddon fan. And for the millionth time, I prder not to talk about managers. But Maddon does the make point that managers does have a particular expertise in the way they interact with the players on their teams.

And that's where a manager can make a difference. I just wouldn't call them "good" or "bad." They're like wives or girlfriends. What's a good wife to you, may be a bad wife to me. And vice versa. The thing is, you don't really know until you're in the marriage. That's why it's dumb to get all worked up over who is being hired.

Also, there is the matter of the manager taking the heat for decisions he isn't making. You have fans screaming at you because you brought in Bennett Sousa instead of Kendall Graveman, but the front office ordered you not to use Graveman today. So the fans don't know shit.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:39 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
vitoscotti wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I don't know if you believe Joe Maddon is a "good" or a "bad" manager, but this excerpt baseball culture has changed.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/10/06/joe-m ... ok-excerpt

Maddon is a rare baseball manager who openly expresses how he feels about the game in depth. Grandpa Ross and his ilk just yap out scripted platitudes. But Maddon is the master BS-er constantly wanting the spotlight and to put himself in a good light. When his Cubs decisions were questioned by fans he said the intricacies were over fans scope of knowledge to fathom. In the SI article book excerpt he now says fans NEED to know how the hot dog is made behind the scenes in MLB when he doesn't have one managers job nibble. The guys always an interesting read how he puts his baseball expertise on a pedestal.


I'm not a Maddon fan. And for the millionth time, I prder not to talk about managers. But Maddon does the make point that managers does have a particular expertise in the way they interact with the players on their teams.

And that's where a manager can make a difference. I just wouldn't call them "good" or "bad." They're like wives or girlfriends. What's a good wife to you, may be a bad wife to me. And vice versa. The thing is, you don't really know until you're in the marriage. That's why it's dumb to get all worked up over who is being hired.

Also, there is the matter of the manager taking the heat for decisions he isn't making. You have fans screaming at you because you brought in Bennett Sousa instead of Kendall Graveman, but the front office ordered you not to use Graveman today. So the fans don't know shit.


I think a parent is a better analogy. A good parent understands that all of their kids are different. There is fairness, but everything isn't equal. They are attentive to the needs of all of their kids. They can effectively communicate the same message in a variety of ways.

Edit: I should add strategy is also involved. Great coaches are both good or great strategists and parents.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:15 am 
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Grandpa rossy is a great coach and a shitty parent

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:39 am 
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The last page or two of this thread has been fantastic. (Not being sarcastic.)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:47 am 
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Go ahead and keep pitching to Harper in key situations.

Is that "good" or "bad" managing?

I would suggest it's bad.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:03 am 
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Nas wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
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badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
The bad guys can get lucky in every sport. Joe Torre should get more love than he does. Having the best roster doesn't guarantee you anything in baseball's playoffs.

What did Joe Torre win when he wasnt manager of the best team in baseball?


More than the Dodgers and every other that's had the best team in baseball since. How many titles would Stengel have if he had to win 3 playoff series in order to win a World Series?

It's a weakness of baseball, this post season "tournament". It needs to be addressed. The "pennant winner" shouldn't have to play until the ALCS or NLCS. There is no reason for 162 otherwise. So this will never happen so go to 120. And again, that also will never happen so baseball will continue to die.

The Sport goes from the end of Feb to the beginning of Nov. Somebody better wake up and decide less is more.


There's been a lot of crying this year that the playoff format is unfair to 100 win teams. On one hand, it's hard to be sympathetic, just win the dam series and you'll be fine. On the other hand, what's the point of 162 games when winning 100 puts you in the same boat as someone who won 80 something? If they want expanded playoffs, it really should come at the expense of the regular season.


It is a disadvantage to the 80 win teams. They've burned their best starters to advance and the 100 win team is well rested. The baseball Gods haven't favored the best teams since the playoffs were expanded. If you want to favor the 100 win team, you will need to go back to the system that existed before 1969.


I dunno about that. The Phillies had the fewest wins of any playoff team. They've played 11 post season games so far.

Of those 11 post season games, 9 of them have been started by their top three starting pitchers: Wheeler, Nola, and Suarez. They've knocked off two "rested" division winners in the process.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:30 am 
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One Post wrote:

I dunno about that. The Phillies had the fewest wins of any playoff team. They've played 11 post season games so far.

Of those 11 post season games, 9 of them have been started by their top three starting pitchers: Wheeler, Nola, and Suarez. They've knocked off two "rested" division winners in the process.


What don't you know? Playing at home isn't an advantage? Being rested isn't an advantage? Being able to set your rotation isn't an advantage? Playing fewer series isn't an advantage? If none of these things are advantageous to the best regular season teams, what would be?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:30 am 
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Nas wrote:
I think a parent is a better analogy. A good parent understands that all of their kids are different. There is fairness, but everything isn't equal. They are attentive to the needs of all of their kids. They can effectively communicate the same message in a variety of ways.


But what you're describing should then work all the time. How can Girardi be a "good" manager for Team A but a "bad" one for Team B?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:31 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Go ahead and keep pitching to Harper in key situations.

Is that "good" or "bad" managing?

I would suggest it's bad.



I don't know. Is the pitcher's job to limit baserunners? If it is, why would you put anyone on on purpose?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:32 am 
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Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:

I dunno about that. The Phillies had the fewest wins of any playoff team. They've played 11 post season games so far.

Of those 11 post season games, 9 of them have been started by their top three starting pitchers: Wheeler, Nola, and Suarez. They've knocked off two "rested" division winners in the process.


What don't you know? Playing at home isn't an advantage? Being rested isn't an advantage? Being able to set your rotation isn't an advantage? Playing fewer series isn't an advantage? If none of these things are advantageous to the best regular season teams, what would be?



Being off for a week while other teams stay sharp may not be an advantage.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:34 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
I think a parent is a better analogy. A good parent understands that all of their kids are different. There is fairness, but everything isn't equal. They are attentive to the needs of all of their kids. They can effectively communicate the same message in a variety of ways.


But what you're describing should then work all the time. How can Girardi be a "good" manager for Team A but a "bad" one for Team B?


It usually does for the great ones. For others, the game passes them by, and they are unable to adjust. The truly great managers/coaches are able to evolve with the game for a long period of time.

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