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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:36 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
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There isn't one player that started on offense for the Bears yesterday that would start for the Eagles.

Justin Fields


Nope. Hurts had a terrible game, and it would have been by far the best game of Fields career.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:37 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
There isn't one player that started on offense for the Bears yesterday that would start for the Eagles.

Justin Fields

:lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:40 am 
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Nas wrote:
Fields is a worse passer than he was last year..


Well, it's actually a great time to make that comparison to see if your analysis holds any water, as games played and passes attempted are nearly identical.

Just a head's up, you aren't going to be statistically supported

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:41 am 
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Hurts threw two picks against a lousy defense. Not sure what game you were watching


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:49 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Hurts threw two picks against a lousy defense. Not sure what game you were watching


Hurts threw for over 300 yards, rushed for nearly 100, and had 3 touchdowns. We would have stopped the game to retire Fields jersey if he did that.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:52 am 
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Passing yards is the most overrated stat in football now


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:53 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
NME wrote:
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If the Bears end up picking 1st serious consideration needs to be on Bryce Young and trading Fields.. I like Fields but he doesn’t look like he’s going to have a long career due to how much punishment he takes.

Jesus, what an awful take



Nobody fucks with the Jesus Bob


Fields was clearly the better QB today, operating with 1/10th the talent of Hurts and your solution is to draft a similar style QB only smaller behind this sad oline. Holy shit what drugs did you consume today


We finally have something at qb and Bears fans are already looking to the next thing. While not there yet, he's pretty clearly on the cusp of something great. He's already exciting and fun. He really does not take that many big hits, other than when Alex Leatherwood is pass blocking.

I can guarantee you he will put in the time this off season to make an even bigger leap.


I agree with your assessment. He is an elite player who has been slotted at quarterback, but he is obviously not what we think of as a conventional quarterback. The Bears have begun to maximize his unique talent and will hopefully be able to do that even more next year. Meanwhile, Fields needs to significantly improve his conventional/pocket passing skills so that he can do a better job of making ordinary offensive plays. Maybe all of this can't or won't happen, but Fields is the best player we've had at that position in decades--maybe ever. He's just not a QB right now. But that doesn't mean he can't be the reason why they win a lot of games. He has already dominated a lot of games this year, and I hope/think that he will take another big step forward next year.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:56 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fields is a worse passer than he was last year..


Well, it's actually a great time to make that comparison to see if your analysis holds any water, as games played and passes attempted are nearly identical.

Just a head's up, you aren't going to be statistically supported


You had to look it up because even you weren't sure. He's stopped throwing picks at a high rate, but there isn't a huge difference between this year and last year when it comes to passing. I just don't see the huge leap that you are projecting. I hope I'm dead wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:01 am 
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Nas wrote:
I hope I'm dead.


Take it easy, buddy. It's just a game.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:04 am 
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It's probably better to say that Fields hasn't improved as a passer. His improved running game has helped his overall stats some but someone who runs as good as him and the defense keying on that every single play should be leading the league in passing percentage. The Bears are actually throwing less times per game with him than they did last year.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:05 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Passing yards is the most overrated stat in football now


We're Bears fans, but great quarterbacks usually pass for a lot of yards. When the season ends, Fields will have fewer than 2500 passing yards and fewer than 3600 total yards. That ain't elite.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:06 am 
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Nardi wrote:
Nas wrote:
I hope I'm dead.


Take it easy, buddy. It's just a game.


:santa: :santa:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:07 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Passing yards is the most overrated stat in football now

Until Fields starts actually getting some. Then it will be the be all end all.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:14 am 
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No, he's right - mostly a useless indicator. Too many variables at play that may lead to an artificial spike or reduction in yards passed. I can't get how Nas, yourself, Jaw Breaker, etc., forget that really any QB can rack up empty yards while trying to erase large deficits. Would you be happy with that? Yards passed as a stand-alone stat is fucking useless.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:08 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Passing yards is the most overrated stat in football now

Until Fields starts actually getting some. Then it will be the be all end all.
Don't worry. I'm sure you'll find something (other than skin color !) to bash Fields so you can continue your hatred of him.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:02 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Hurts threw two picks against a lousy defense. Not sure what game you were watching


Hurts threw for over 300 yards, rushed for nearly 100, and had 3 touchdowns. We would have stopped the game to retire Fields jersey if he did that.


Yes, Hurts is an MVP candidate and Fields compares favorably to him at similar stages to their careers. Lots of work to do but lots of good already present.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:12 pm 
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Brick wrote:
It's probably better to say that Fields hasn't improved as a passer. .


He HAS improved as a passer, across the board. He's throwing longer passes with greater accuracy, which is pretty impressive. His int% is down, his TD % is up. There is no stat at which he is not exceeding last year's work...and he's ascending, as we can all agree he was much worse in the first half of this year

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:14 pm 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fields is a worse passer than he was last year..


Well, it's actually a great time to make that comparison to see if your analysis holds any water, as games played and passes attempted are nearly identical.

Just a head's up, you aren't going to be statistically supported


You had to look it up because even you weren't sure. He's stopped throwing picks at a high rate, but there isn't a huge difference between this year and last year when it comes to passing. I just don't see the huge leap that you are projecting. I hope I'm dead wrong.


It's a CFMB sin to support an argument with research.

You may not see it in the way he throws it but you can't deny the results. They are there, plain as day, and it isn't by just a little.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:17 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
No, he's right - mostly a useless indicator. Too many variables at play that may lead to an artificial spike or reduction in yards passed. I can't get how Nas, yourself, Jaw Breaker, etc., forget that really any QB can rack up empty yards while trying to erase large deficits. Would you be happy with that? Yards passed as a stand-alone stat is fucking useless.


Like it or not, it’s way better to throw a 30-yard pass than to make a spectacular 30-yard run, even if the short-term result is exactly the same.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:37 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
No, he's right - mostly a useless indicator. Too many variables at play that may lead to an artificial spike or reduction in yards passed. I can't get how Nas, yourself, Jaw Breaker, etc., forget that really any QB can rack up empty yards while trying to erase large deficits. Would you be happy with that? Yards passed as a stand-alone stat is fucking useless.


There are always variables involved. Fields incompetence as a passer made Getsy use his running ability. I would be happy with Fields becoming a quicker and more accurate passer.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:42 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Fields is a worse passer than he was last year..


Well, it's actually a great time to make that comparison to see if your analysis holds any water, as games played and passes attempted are nearly identical.

Just a head's up, you aren't going to be statistically supported


You had to look it up because even you weren't sure. He's stopped throwing picks at a high rate, but there isn't a huge difference between this year and last year when it comes to passing. I just don't see the huge leap that you are projecting. I hope I'm dead wrong.


It's a CFMB sin to support an argument with research.

You may not see it in the way he throws it but you can't deny the results. They are there, plain as day, and it isn't by just a little.


I don't think we're watching the same player, my friend. I see a kid who is more poised. I said that during the Redskins game. He can read field very well. He's still too deliberate throwing the ball. He's been that way his entire life because he's always had elite talent on the o-line, at running back, and WR. He also has accuracy issues at every level. I think you can clean up the accuracy issues, but I don't think he's going to stop holding the ball for 20 seconds anytime soon.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:43 pm 
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Like it or not, it’s way better to throw a 30-yard pass than to make a spectacular 30-yard run, even if the short-term result is exactly the same.



But this assumes yards passed is still a useful metric. It's also a bit of a strawman since I haven't suggested running is better than or equal to passing.

My overall argument is yards passed is not a useful metric with which to judge the success or lack thereof of a QB. This is not meant to mute criticism of Fields, this goes beyond Fields.

Brady 312 yards passing yesterday
Burrow had 200

Well, Brady had to generate 312 because he kept turning the ball over which created a larger deficit for him to overcome, hence the yardage.

Burrow has less because Brady gave the Bengals short fields and Burrow took advantage.

So 200 yards vs 312 is just a useless conversation, a waste of time. It doesn't speak to the performance of Brady or Burrow at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:44 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
vs 312 is just a useless conversation
Anything vs 312player is a useless conversation.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:45 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Brick wrote:
It's probably better to say that Fields hasn't improved as a passer. .


He HAS improved as a passer, across the board. He's throwing longer passes with greater accuracy, which is pretty impressive. His int% is down, his TD % is up. There is no stat at which he is not exceeding last year's work...and he's ascending, as we can all agree he was much worse in the first half of this year

It's a marginal improvement and with how he has become arguably the best running threat in the league it's more likely that teams are just concentrating more on his running than it is some sort of improvement in passing when the coach won't even plan for 20 passes a game.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:47 pm 
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I don't know how he's doing passing-wise due to the low volume of passes.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:47 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
vs 312 is just a useless conversation
Anything vs 312player is a useless conversation.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:49 pm 
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Brick wrote:
It's a marginal improvement and with how he has become arguably the best running threat in the league it's more likely that teams are just concentrating more on his running than it is some sort of improvement in passing when the coach won't even plan for 20 passes a game.
I don't necessarily disagree in principal, but this is the same coach who called for an end around to Velus Jones who has more fumbles than he does receptions.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:08 pm 
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Brick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Brick wrote:
It's probably better to say that Fields hasn't improved as a passer. .


He HAS improved as a passer, across the board. He's throwing longer passes with greater accuracy, which is pretty impressive. His int% is down, his TD % is up. There is no stat at which he is not exceeding last year's work...and he's ascending, as we can all agree he was much worse in the first half of this year

It's a marginal improvement and with how he has become arguably the best running threat in the league it's more likely that teams are just concentrating more on his running than it is some sort of improvement in passing when the coach won't even plan for 20 passes a game.


He's just about up to an average passer and rising. I have a lot of reason to hope next year will be above average to pair with the exceptional running.

I do think we undervalue the running. Teams know its going to happen and still can't stop it.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:24 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
He's just about up to an average passer and rising. I have a lot of reason to hope next year will be above average to pair with the exceptional running.
No he isn't. His passing stats would get him on the qb hot seat if not benched like Matt Ryan and others have been.

He's arguably the best running threat in the league right now but it doesn't make him a great passer and it likely overrates how well he can pass if not for the defenses being so keyed on the run.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:39 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
No, he's right - mostly a useless indicator. Too many variables at play that may lead to an artificial spike or reduction in yards passed. I can't get how Nas, yourself, Jaw Breaker, etc., forget that really any QB can rack up empty yards while trying to erase large deficits. Would you be happy with that? Yards passed as a stand-alone stat is fucking useless.
It's certainly not the most important stat, but given that they have attempted to overcome numerous 4th quarter deficits this season, you would think that he would have racked up some of those empty yards at some point by now.

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