Imagine if he were more motivated. Like if he had the maturity of a Kobe or Jordan. He might have 10 rings.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

I would need to see where he literally stated that the "league took off" because of the Pistons. And it also depends on what you mean by "took off" anyway. Means different things to different people. His point was that regardless of the "other" team that was playing in the Finals, Detroit was involved in terms of highest ratings. Its hard to discount their impact with this being the case. And this is also not particularly revisionist either, since my guy Chet Coppock used to talk about this during the time in which it was actually occurring.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about them, the Bad Boy Pistons played a huge role in growing the NBA. That didn't simply reap the benefits of what Magic and Bird started, they grew the sport too back then.

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I didn't include him because he was forced to coach for a few minutes and he's a lot further down the list of all time great players than Larry Bird. I don't think there is any objective argument for Bird being worse than the 2nd best SF of all time.

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He said it directly in that youtube link at the start of this thread.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Yeah and he was right. We can spin this however "WE" want now but if people were not interested in what they had to offer then the ratings would not have been nearly as high as they happened to be when they played.

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Kobe is on my Mount Rushmore. For many others it's more a dig at LeBron for not having that killer instinct that even a pass first guy like Magic had.

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He was not right. No one is discounting that the Pistons drew big ratings and had great teams. But the NBA did not suddenly take off with their run. That is revisionist history.

The NBA took off with the Lakers/Celtics/ 76ers run from earlier in the decade. That is when it took off. That is not speculation. That is what happened.

That in no way takes away from the Pistons or Isiah's greatness.

But you cannot claim as Isiah did that the facts are that tht NBA took off with the Pistons. That simply did not happen.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Top 3 players of my lifetime
1. Jordan
2. Duncan most underrated player possibly in NBA history.
3. Lebron

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Kobe
Jordan
Bird

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Wilt
Kareem
Shaq

_________________
Ecclesiastes 5:8

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2013 CSFMB ROY

You have Wilt as your GOAT?

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The question isnt the top 3 centers of all time.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Was Kareem better than Hakeem.

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Center was the most important position during the time frame we're discussing. That's why Akeem and Bowie were drafted ahead of Jordan.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I would say he was easily better. Most people don't even remember what he did with the Bucks.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Im sorry I thought the question was top 3 players of our life time. I did not realize your life time ended in 84.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Probably. But it would be close between him and Kareem. Shaq, Russell, and Hakeem would be just below them. I like Shaq the best, but I'm not really going to argue if someone says Hakeem was better.

For non-centers, I'd say Magic is the greatest. Of course Robertson and Jordan would be right there.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Curious as to why Magic over Jordan and also why LeBron doesn't make that list of Robertson, Jordan and Magic.

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That shows Jordan’s greatness. He won with mid-level centers and changed the way GMs viewed the position.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

I can objectively understand why Wilt is considered the GOAT if we aren't clinging to championships. I can't see it for lazy ass Shaq. He may be one of the biggest wastes of talent in NBA history.

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This is a guy who believes the 2006 White Sox were the best team of his lifetime, so I'm not sure why you are surprised at his patently insane take above.

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I don't see you talking about Steph Curry though. So obviously you're just trying to support your premise that Jordan is the GOAT and that it cannot be argued otherwise.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I would argue, like Isiah was arguing, that the rules were changed to allow Jordan to slice through the lane at will in a way that players of his type in previous eras could not.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I have no problem putting LeBron right there. But I would say- and I admit that I may be biased because I don't really like LeBron- that he looked to lean on other players with the game on the line in a way these other guys did not.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I do believe that Jordan is the GOAT. But that is not really my issue with your list. While I don't agree with people who say someone else is the GOAT, I can at least understand the discussion. I have a real hard time seeing how anyone can objectively have a top 3 of all time that does not include Jordan. It would be like having an all time MLB top 3 without Babe Ruth or an all time NHL top 3 without Gretzky.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

You could also argue that Centers were more important before the addition of a 3 point line.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

I wouldn't mind if the league took the three point line away so the players could get back to playing basketball.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

The kids don't like that brand of basketball. They don't like teams anymore.

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GO BEARS!!!

Sure. That took a little while and some unbelievable shooters to really manifest though. It's at the point now where centers are almost irrelevant.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8