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Warren Newson
 Post subject: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:32 pm 
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Rolen is in, Helton just misses:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/01/ ... -fame.html

I'd put Helton in over Rolen every day of the week.
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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:42 pm 
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No. I agree with you.

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Caller Bob
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:45 pm 
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Helton was propped up by Coors
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KDdidit
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:46 pm 
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When you freak out over steroid guys this is the trash you’re left with getting into the hall.
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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:46 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Helton was propped up by Coors


Rolan was just above average to good. He wasn't great.

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JORR
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:49 pm 
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Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.

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Caller Bob
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:50 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Helton was propped up by Coors


Rolan was just above average to good. He wasn't great.

Don't let any of them in. Get that bum Baines out too
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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:54 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.


Roles peaked during the steroid Bonds years, but he played another decade without power. When I think of a HoF 3rd baseman, I don't think .280 and 300 home runs.

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Warren Newson
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:02 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.


Roles peaked during the steroid Bonds years, but he played another decade without power. When I think of a HoF 3rd baseman, I don't think .280 and 300 home runs.


Helton's road OPS is still .855. He has a similar home to road OPS differential as guys like: Larry Walker, Ron Santo, Wade Boggs, Jimmie Foxx, and Kirby Puckett.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jaws-and-th ... dd-helton/

Rolen is one of the huge number of guys for whom I'd never vote, but are close enough to not be too objectionable.
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JORR
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:17 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.


Roles peaked during the steroid Bonds years, but he played another decade without power. When I think of a HoF 3rd baseman, I don't think .280 and 300 home runs.



Without looking I'm gonna guess those numbers are about average for HoF third basemen. Granted, the power numbers for the old guys aren't going to be there. But off the top of my head I'd say Rolen is better offensively than Santo and Kell and he's probably the best fielder besides Brooks Robinson who wasn't as good offensively. There's really no beef with Rolen getting in.

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denisdman
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:22 pm 
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Never thought HoF when I saw him play.

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badrogue17
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:33 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.


Roles peaked during the steroid Bonds years, but he played another decade without power. When I think of a HoF 3rd baseman, I don't think .280 and 300 home runs.

Image

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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:37 pm 
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Warren Newson wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.


Roles peaked during the steroid Bonds years, but he played another decade without power. When I think of a HoF 3rd baseman, I don't think .280 and 300 home runs.


Helton's road OPS is still .855. He has a similar home to road OPS differential as guys like: Larry Walker, Ron Santo, Wade Boggs, Jimmie Foxx, and Kirby Puckett.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jaws-and-th ... dd-helton/

Rolen is one of the huge number of guys for whom I'd never vote, but are close enough to not be too objectionable.

Perfectly stated!

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JORR
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:45 pm 
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Helton is a first baseman who played his entire career in Colorado and he has about 50 more homers than Rolen who was an elite fielder at third base. I just can't see the argument for putting him in ahead of Rolen. I'm not sure I could put Helton in before Darrell Evans.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:45 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.


Roles peaked during the steroid Bonds years, but he played another decade without power. When I think of a HoF 3rd baseman, I don't think .280 and 300 home runs.

Image


Remove his steroid years, and he doesn't have 100 home runs. I saw a good all around player, I didn't see HoF worthy. As someone else said, the White Sox didn't try to sign him at the end. That's a good sign you're not a HoFer.

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RFDC
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:46 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Never thought HoF when I saw him play.

something about that awful Cardinal uniform

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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:48 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Never thought HoF when I saw him play.

something about that awful Cardinal uniform

That's actually a HUGE plus :D

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KDdidit
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:58 pm 
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Either steroid era guys are all in or all out. That’s the bed the league and players made when they looked the other way. Vote Rolen in if you want, but there’s 50 better guys than him not in from that “era.”
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Jaw Breaker
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:14 pm 
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Rolen is first player ever to be elected after getting less than 15% in his first year.

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badrogue17
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:16 pm 
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Nas wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.


Roles peaked during the steroid Bonds years, but he played another decade without power. When I think of a HoF 3rd baseman, I don't think .280 and 300 home runs.

Image


Remove his steroid years, and he doesn't have 100 home runs. I saw a good all around player, I didn't see HoF worthy. As someone else said, the White Sox didn't try to sign him at the end. That's a good sign you're not a HoFer.

Bad shoulder injuries might have something to do with the power numbers declining too.

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denisdman
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:20 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Never thought HoF when I saw him play.

something about that awful Cardinal uniform


Lol no that’s not it. Pujols in obviously. I may hate the White Sox, Cardinals, Packers, etc., but greatness is greatness to be admired and respected.

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Walt Williams Neck
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:06 pm 
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Neither of them are HOF worthy....Scott Rolen that's all you got :lol:

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billypootons
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:03 pm 
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Worst baseball HOF class ever?
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Nardi
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:30 am 
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Vote for Bonds and Clemens and you don't have to complain about lack of HOF candidates.
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Thomas-Sox-WorldSeries
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:15 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Either steroid era guys are all in or all out. That’s the bed the league and players made when they looked the other way. Vote Rolen in if you want, but there’s 50 better guys than him not in from that “era.”

Not playing third base there's not

Beltre next year

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Thomas-Sox-WorldSeries
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:19 pm 
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Warren Newson wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.


Roles peaked during the steroid Bonds years, but he played another decade without power. When I think of a HoF 3rd baseman, I don't think .280 and 300 home runs.


Helton's road OPS is still .855. He has a similar home to road OPS differential as guys like: Larry Walker, Ron Santo, Wade Boggs, Jimmie Foxx, and Kirby Puckett.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jaws-and-th ... dd-helton/

Rolen is one of the huge number of guys for whom I'd never vote, but are close enough to not be too objectionable.

I'd vote for him, but Robin Ventura is really not too far behind. I looked at their stats a long time ago; I can't really remember now, but Rolen had a few big seasons at the plate.

Only 15 third basemen in the HoF. Not sure who else is missing.

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This Ends in Antioch
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:23 pm 
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Thomas-Sox-WorldSeries wrote:
Warren Newson wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Really? I think Rolen is a no brainer.

Helton has the big numbers at a big numbers position but there's no doubt he was ballpark aided. I could never put Helton in before Dick Allen.


Roles peaked during the steroid Bonds years, but he played another decade without power. When I think of a HoF 3rd baseman, I don't think .280 and 300 home runs.


Helton's road OPS is still .855. He has a similar home to road OPS differential as guys like: Larry Walker, Ron Santo, Wade Boggs, Jimmie Foxx, and Kirby Puckett.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jaws-and-th ... dd-helton/

Rolen is one of the huge number of guys for whom I'd never vote, but are close enough to not be too objectionable.

I'd vote for him, but Robin Ventura is really not too far behind. I looked at their stats a long time ago; I can't really remember now, but Rolen had a few big seasons at the plate.

Only 15 third basemen in the HoF. Not sure who else is missing.

Joe Crede

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Regular Reader
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:39 pm 
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It’s time to raise the threshold to at least 80% and make the voting completely public.

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Frank Coztansa
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:40 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
It’s time to raise the threshold to at least 80% and make the voting completely public.
Because that works so well for the All Star game.

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Nardi
 Post subject: Re: Scott Rolen HOF
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:42 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
It’s time to raise the threshold to at least 80% and make the voting completely public.
Because that works so well for the All Star game.

At least Rose, Bonds, and Clemens gets in.
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