And I'm saying Gasol Was 1A. Pippen was never 1A to Jordan. He was always A Decided No. 2. And Jordan had a helluva lot more playoff and regular season success without Pippen than Kobe had without Gasol.
Gasol was literally a game changer for the Lakers

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That must mean that you are a man with a paper ass. My slingshot is tearing holes through it.

I assumed that you were going to lean on the 3 straight air balls against the Jazz in like his rookie year. Nope. You use the series that I literally described him closing out in my post. Kobe pretty much missed most of Game 2 and all of game 3 with a sprained ankle. The Lakers led the series 2-1 and Shaq fouled out in overtime. Kobe scored 30 points and finished off the Pacers with clutch play after clutch play. WE all saw it. Here is the video since you missed it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI

Kobe averaged 30 points a game for the playoffs the next 2 championships, and 25, 7, 6 in the Finals. Scoring 50 to finish off the King's in 2001. Followed by 45 for Pop in Game 1.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... melog/2001

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... nko01.html

What did top 20 KG do?

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Not true. I believe it too.

I know people wanted "The Next Jordan" and they use "rings" to judge greatness, but if you're assigning "rings" to a single player those were Shaq's, not Kobe's.

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General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

I actually think you guys are making the best "Jordan isn't the GOAT" argument that exists by giving more credit than most do to the greatest big men in history. It also avoids the unfortunate "Russell Westbrook is better than Jordan" problem.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The Lakers still won with Kobe sucking ass that series. And other series too. Which is my point. Look at some of his performances in some of those "critical" Western Conference series against teams like Portland and Sacramento. He wasn't giving much of shit then either.
And when Shaq could no longer be the "dominant" figure that he was, the Lakers were finished.

Look at guys like Dirk and what he did with "lesser" players and compare it to the great Kobe. Dirk went to the Finals with Josh Howard as his 2nd best player and won one (beating LeBron and Wade in their prime) with Tyson Chandler as his 2nd best. That's impact. Kobe asked to be traded when he had players of similar or lesser caliber.

KG was winning 50 games on a regular when the Wolves had shitty rosters while Kobe was barely going .500

And Kobe avg 26 points per game against a shitty Nets team and I haven't checked his stats against Weak ass Philly. The True test of his contributions would be the Western Conference Finals during those years anyway. That's where the real action was anyway

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Yep that is why he won the MVP in each Finals series during the 3 peat years. That wasn't an accident either. He was that dominant.

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You have no point. I shredded your Pacers narrative and showed the stats for the following years. He scored 48 to finish the King's and then gave Duncan 45 to start off the WCF.

On the other hand, I'm still waiting for the top 20 KG evidence.

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Garnett has 1 League MVP to his name while Kobe has none. And Garnett has a ring with Guys that were never as good as Shaq (definitely not) or even Gasol. And Garnett was arguably the best PF during an era when PF was the dominant position in the NBA. And as Stated previously Garnett has a history of winning 50 games with Shitty rosters while Kobe did not. There is your "evidence".

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I agree with LTG that Kobe wasn't the playoffs legend that the world makes him out to be. The big difference between him and Jordan, was that Mike got off a good shot 99.5% of the time. Kobe was mortal in that regard. I probably give Kobe a top 20 designation though because I don't pander to the Wilt/Russell "great for their time" trope.

KG was never the best PF. That was always Duncan. That's just messed up to even suggest that.

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Operative term was "arguably" and it's "messed up" to just simply ignore that.

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No one is arguing that or will argue that.

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This is the main reason he could never be considered in Jordan's class. Jordan was virtually unstoppable one on one while Kobe was hardly ever that.
Could you imagine a bum like Ruben Patterson ever running around "bragging" about being the "Jordan stopper" as he did with Kobe?

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There were plenty of people arguing at the time actually.

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Kobe won league MVP in 2008, was robbed of an MVP when he averaged 40 points a game, and won Finals and all star game MVPs. Garnett was the 3rd best player on that championship team. PF was NEVER the dominant position in the NBA, Garnett was NEVER considered a better player than Kobe. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen were better players than Gasol. Other than that...

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He was Reggie Miller to Duncan's MJ when it came to power forwards. LTGs irrational and fact less hate of Kobe will make him say anything.

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At the time. Yes. The dust is settled. Duncan is king. It's not clear if KG is better than Dirk. That's an argument. Not Duncan vs KG.

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My point was always relative to the era in which PF was the best position in the game.

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You're confusing "hate" with not having an irrational, over the top love affair going with him as you have. I have him just outside the top 20 All Time. I think that is a "fair" and "balanced" assessment of him as a player.

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You do realize that Kobe won 2 rings after Shaq was gone, right?

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“How do you get to be president and you’re stupid?” Donald J Trump - 4/10/25
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I do. And if you're assigning "rings" to a single player feel free to assign those 2 to Kobe.

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General Jim wears Fort Bragg down... to get it!

I'm not sure Shaq was the best player in LA after the first 2 trips to the Finals. Shaq also had 3 of the greatest guards in NBA history and only managed to win 4 titles in 6 tries. That's embarrassing.

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Shaq was the dude that carried them against Sacramento in the 02 series. Not Kobe.

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Dirk vs. KG isn’t an argument. Kevin easily played both ends of the court at an All NBA level for at least a decade and was clearly a better player than Dirk, who was a better scorer I’ll readily agree.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

The Lakers were down 2-3 in the series. What did Kobe do the Las 2 games? He scored 61 points, grabbed 22 rebounds, and had 12 assists. We know Kobe closed the King's out the year before with a 50 piece spicy.

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Dirk led a team to the promised land. He did not have a superstar partner in crime. KG maxed out at appearing in a WCF as his team's no 1.

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He Shot 41% for the series. That is atrocious for a shooting guard. Shaq dominated as usual

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We can also fast forward to 2004 when RIP Hamilton got up with him and they were "gentlemenly" swept in the finals. Kobe shot 38% for the series. Again atrocious

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What do you mean by legend? I don't see how Kobe's legacy is overinflated by being in however many series he was in.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

And Kobe killing in Game 6 and 7 helped get the Lakers over the top. The refs helped too. Truthfully, that's probably the best series Shaq played in his life. He was motivated.

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