The reason there are so many "bad" managers is because they're managing shitty teams. Do guys vacillate between being bad and good? Was Maddon good in 2016 and bad in 2022? He must have forgotten how to manage and gotten bad, right? He had Ohtani and Trout too. One of the worst of all time. The 2016 Cubs would have probably been undefeated with a good manager.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I think these younger guys are just doing what the computer says. Theoretically, that should give them more time to manage the personalities in the locker room.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

The randomness. Part of the game and the manager has to deal with it.

There's a plethora of bad managers not because of bad teams, but because they say stupid shit, they do stupid shit, and they put up with stupid shit.

There are things they should be teaching as well.

Obviously, the Sox players need to learn a lot--or be held accountable for some of the basic things they can't do.

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The bottom line is that managers are discussed WAY too much. A utility infielder has more effect on team performance than the manager.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Are there exceptions to this rule? Before the White Sox hired Tony La Russa, managers did not have any material impact on wins/losses and the lineups, etc. to those who rely on analytics for most of their baseball analysis.

His hiring is now seen as the major reversal to the fortunes of the White Sox - the beginning of the end of the White Sox run and he is now often blamed for the intangible failures (i.e. culture, accountability, leadership etc.) that can't be measured.

The same people didn't want the old man to challenge the players. They blame his modified approach for not turning a deeply flawed and Hahn sabotaged roster into a WS winner. We're witnessing what a shit manager looks like this season.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

That's a very tough (and dumb) argument to make when LaRussa was the manager during their most successful season since the World Series year.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Managers are not discussed enough. The overriding feeling out there is yours, not mine, with a caveat. Many of the same guys who say managers don't matter, bitch the most about the stupid shit they do, the stupid shit they say, and the stupid shit they put up with.

The dumb argument is saying that manager's don't matter, but then trying to give the manager credit for a 93 win season. Its not a two way street. Either manager's matter, or they don't.

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If you're going to say managers are "good" and "bad", you should be able to provide a way to measure such. I know you think LaRussa was "bad" though a Sox team that has been terrible since won 90+ games with him and he's in the HoF. I'm just curious as to how you know the difference between a "good" and a "bad" manager.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I don't see why there can't be a pitching coordinator, a defensive coordinator, an offensive coordinator....if need be.

Look at the guy in Milwaukee. Going to be a bunch of dead ass arms in October. As usual.

Experience, watching since Chuck Tanner and Earl Weaver. It's game to game, day to day. What stupid shit did he say, what stupid shit did he do, and what stupid shit did he put up with 'today'. Then you add it all up. And let's cut the shit with LaRussa. He had half a season and then it basically collapsed. All the stupid shit has been documented.

To me, a good manager demands solid fundamentals from all of his players. All players need to hustle. No cliques in the clubhouse especially cliques of a racial nature. A good manager also puts together a coaching staff based on what he wants implemented offensively and defensively. He also follows the progress of the minor league players and have a lot of impact on who gets sent down and called up.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

I guess Pedro didnt see Jackie, Grandal, Moncada etc play baseball this year . Oscar Colas though, that dude needs to clean things up.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

I dont get sending Colas down right now. He needs to be getting at bats every day so they can determine if he is their guy for next year or not.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

How dare they send Colas and his 571 OPS down!

The determination has been made: he's not.

I don’t disagree with them sending him down because he hasn’t been good but it’s the calling him out for things that he needs to work on when almost every veteran on their team has done the same things the entire year with zero repercussions or admonishments from their manager.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Colas the whipping boy.... Veterans are shaking in their boots.

I think that there are really few true MANAGERS in all of baseball. And, there is also a great difference between true managers and it is displayed by some truly great managers in college baseball ranks compared to many more lazy "managers" at the pro level who are just checking the proverbial box by filling out line-up cards and sitting down in the dugout and letting the game take whatever way it is want to go. LaRussa and I'd say maybe 80% of all managers quit caring about getting players to work hard and hustle but rather just care about getting paid and feathering their own nests. COntrast that against what the top collegiate coaches are all about which is sure about winning but it also is teaching and player developement. WHen have you ever lately heard any struggling slumping player talking about extra BP, bringing in swing coaches, swing modifications, etc. When have you seen improvements in infield and outfield play by any player after he received suggestions given by former great players and coaches?

That kind of stuff used to happen. Hell, I've seen it at both the college and especially the high school level and I know also that it used to happen in the pros. Now it seldom happens even in the low minor leagues when they work with the high level prospects because many of those guys get PAID millions bucks or more and think so much of themselves that their own ego shuts off taking advice from experienced coaches and players who have seen it all in their careers.

Moncada is a prime example of this failure to take advice. The man is the same failed hitter he has been since he was placed on a major league line-up. And this was because he was GIVEN an absurd amount of money and his ego and financial safety net got in the way of anyone getting to him with suggestions to make him a good let alone great player.

To me, Moncada should be a case study on how not to recruit baseball players. I wonder how many good players were out there that would have had the same or even better talent and chance to succeed as a major league player that could have been recruited and signed other than his bling laden sorry ass. My guess is that there were at least 6 or 7 legit hungry players that were out there at the time they decided to trade for Moncada.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

Absolutely what he said. If I were a hands on GM these last two season, first of allI would have fired LaRussa before the all-star game last year and hired the best hands-on manager and coaching staff I could find. I would have also traded Moncada, and all the other mooks on the team that I deemed not wanted on my team going forward. Even if I had to get little in return or have to eat some salary, I'd do it even if it was a lot I would then go out into the baseball veteran world and hire a bunch of part-time hands on development coaches to work in the off season, spring training and during the season. As far as players are concerned, I'd screen the shit out of their work ethic whether they are Latin free agents college kids or young veterans with a future. And this team would have players hustle and work or they would be shipped out. Cause trouble in the dugout, see ya.

Coupled with this change in attitude is to bring in the best of training equipment and staff, baseball specific trainers, sports medicine and mental health pros also. A special focus would be on finding young healthy pitching prospects and to TEACH them the safe and sound way to develop their arms and to keep them healthy. In my view, the White Sox do none of that beyond the same shitty techniques that have and will cause arm and elbow problems by the dozen. There have been throughout baseball history some pitchers that very seldom had severe arm problems. Take Lance Lynn as an example. Ever watch this guy PITCH? Throws three solid pitches from one release point yet has the ball move three different ways? There are dozens of other examples. How about someone like Mark Buerhle? Livan Hernandez?

I'm a retired pitching coach and I am sick of watching the state of the game in that area. Instead of developing pitchers including how to pitch philosophically. SO now we have guys like Kopech never learning how to learn how to pitch and wearing their arm out by throwing everything hard and never developing an off speed pitch or pitches. And whoever taught that kid to pitch only from a set position was a dolt. And don't get me started on very few pitchers ever learning how to hold runners, pick runners off, etc.

Yeah, that's my baseball rant for today.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

My guess is that Grifol is trying to send a "message" to the team. Unfortunately. It is too fucking late and with the wrong player. We watched an entire season of dog players allowed to happen. It sickens me. Grifol is belatedly trying to point to himself, thump his chest and tell every one how "tough" he is. He ain't shit.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip

This guy is beyond cluless.

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I mean that's probably best for Eloy. Nobody wants to see the guy burst into flames trying to get to first base on a grounder.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Then release him.

If not, play him and have a bag of marshmallows ready.

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jesus.
Ok. That's fair.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

He pinch hit Eloy in the bottom of the 9th with 2 out

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Did he start on fire?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I do think that managers can make a difference for a team with talent, either veteran talent or young talent. But without talent present no one can win. Dave Roberts if the perfect example of a guy who has had all the talent money can and has bought but how have they done?

Thate being said. Grisbol is a lousy manager who is over his head in his game decisions. And i don't know why or who is making the decisions on the major league roster but Colas looks to me that he has talent and there aren't many guys who have any talent on the entire White Sox and affiliate rosters.

_________________
An Ode to the Texas man who shot an Antifa terrorist:

Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip