The dominant pro-Fields narrative implies Fields is great but is held back by coaching. This suggests that once you remove Fields from his environment he will flourish. Greenberg said as much today and even said the same applied to (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky.

Has this ever happened before? Has any QB been drafted by team X, sucked/was mediocre, then went to team Y and became a Pro Bowler/All Pro/MVP by playing at a level measurably better than the level he played at with the team who drafted him? I can only think of Tannehill but he went on to become a good/solid player at his next step, not necessarily a hall of famer that the Fields apologists think he is.

Greenberg's lazy (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky analogy undermines his argument. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky was lucky enough to actually have a clean reset by taking on a fresh new role as starting QB in a new city and new system with new coaches and all that. The result was the same as it was in Chicago. You are what your numbers are basically. I don't see Fields really changing his numbers even if he were to start tomorrow in a new city. This narrative needs to die fast.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Yup

_________________

Steve Young? He wasn't good in Tampa.

_________________
2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

Love you man, but don't watch ESPN or listen to Mike Greenberg.

_________________

Young
Favre
Brees

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Tannehill
Y.A.Tittle
Mayfield headed that way
Goff? I know they made the Super Bowl but he looked on his way out of the starter's job--or at least a bad contract --before the trade

I would imagine someone like Shanahan (or Mike Leach style offense, handful of plays with different looks) could scheme up an offense that would minimize Fields weakness and take full advantage of his strengths.

It might be a hot take but Brock Purdy isn't all that--check the numbers: Purdy's pretty average as a QB in an offense that makes him come across on a superficial level like the 2nd coming of Brady.

So like maybe 5ish QBs out of thousands?

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

If there was a such a thing as terrible coaches holding back QBs, we would have seen (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky do more than play in a backup role in Pittsburgh.

_________________

The irony in that is Shanahan took a hard pass on Fields during the draft. He knew what he was doing. I don't know how any QB who stared at open receivers the way Fields did this year and failed to throw can be "molded" into anything useable.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I laughed at some of the commentary about the coaching holding back Fields. Which NFL QB would be considered successful if he continued to miss open receivers because of either lack of vision or inaccurate throws? It has been observed by MANY that Fields continues to miss open receivers downfield in the first two games.

I am sure the coaches have tried to get Fields to look to pass more than run. That is for his own safety long term and for the Bears to have a more balanced offensive attack. If Fields does not see open receivers or is unable to hit them in their hands at a good clip, then I do not care who coaches him. He will suck.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

If fairness, Pittsburgh's OC may be the worst in the NFL. Also, some players cannot mentally overcome shitty coaching. It's not just a quarterback thing. Nagy may have ruined 2 of them.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

There's no questioning Fields' tools. He has the athleticism, he has the arm talent, and he's not a chalk eating athlete. My biggest problem with him is his attitude. It's holding him back. He hears the praise and doesn't believe he has to may the adjustments in his game. Nothing about his attitude has changed since Year 1. He went from demanding that he be the leader of the team because of his draft position to throwing his coaches under the bus because he's struggling to process as a passer.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I guess this is the crux of the thread. Are there all pro level QBs out there whose careers were irrevocably changed due to bad coaching? A potential Peyton Manning who ended up being nothing better than a Derek Carr or Delhomme because of bad circumstances? I'm not sure. I mean you need the reps but it's like the more reps you get the more you show who you are. A recent outlier may be Geno Smith but all he's proven is that he's a viable starter, not that he's a franchise savior.

I think with Fields at the very minimum you know he's not a franchise savior. If he was we would have seen signs of that during the 26 or whatever starts he's had. All we've seen is that he's athletic who can make something out of nothing sometimes, not that he can put a team on his back and win games. And he basically confirmed he's allergic to things like diagnosing coverages and making important pre snap decisions about where to go with the ball because he sees it as "too much data and info". But it's precisely that kind of thing that gives QBs an advantage over defenses. To not have any interest on the strategy part of quarterbacking means he just wants to play backyard football, and defenses are too smart and good for that.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I heard Greenberg’s argument today too and thought it was oversimplified and lazy… which is, coincidentally, Justin Fields’ desired title for this week’s game plan.
He’s not entirely inaccurate, though. Coaches absolutely impact the success or failure of quarterbacks and everyone else on the team. And when you fail, your next chance is typically with another bad team… with bad coaches. But for every Geno Smith or Rich Gannon that stuck around long enough to play for a good team with a good coach and find success that makes you think maybe Greenie is right, I think of a guy like Joe Burrow, who basically dragged a shitty team all the way to the super bowl.
I don’t want a quarterback that NEEDS a great offensive line AND great wide receivers AND the latest, greatest offensive coordinator. I don’t want excuses. I want a quarterback that knows how to win regardless. I know it when I see it. We all do. And Justin Fields ain’t it.

I tend to agree that it's impossible to permanently stifle a great quarterback unless you're reckless with his physical well-being and get him permanently injured. However, if you think that, I also think you shouldn't be saying things like "Nagy ruined (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky." Absent injury, I think almost all of these guys find their level.

Yeah, I don't think (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky would have been a superstar in Kansas City. His ceiling was probably Alex Smith in KC. I believe some guys land in the wrong spot at every position. I don't think it's usually the difference between superstar and role player either.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Ive never seen a quarterback get so many excuses made for him that I have for Fields . The media is being so fucking dishonest and lazy about him its sickening .

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

I haven't either.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Never seen it huh? Excuses were made for Cutler. Excuses were made for Mitch. I know you hate seeing the media defend a black guy so much, but stop being so fucking dishonest and lazy.

_________________

Something Fields doesn't see or realize is that once you put in the work to learn to read defenses at the line of scrimmage and earn the trust of the coaches to makes calls in response to the defensive alignment, the game becomes closer to that open, QB makes the call situation Fields desires--Brady, Manning, Rodgers in their later years can run their own offense with the coaches in the conversation. But first you gotta get to that level. Mahomes isn't there yet. Burrow. Josh Allen. Herbet. None of the new crop of QB's have gotten to that point but they're putting in the work (I assume) and eventually might get to the level of trust of a Brady/Manning.

Recall Tony Romo's last season, when he stood on the sidelines cuck'd by Dak. One of the last games of the season they brought in Romo to run the offense for a drive. Starting on his own 20 Romo went like 6/6 and easily put it in the end zone at the end. Just finding the seams and weak spots in the defense, making the call and hitting the open receiver. Over and over. Looked like a lot of fun to play QB at that level.

True enough people had Cutler forgiveness syndrome but please don’t mention Fields and Cutler in the same breath.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

David Carr is the only QB I can remember thinking was ‘ruined’ by circumstances outside his control, but that had more to do with him getting his shit pushed in every game than bad coaching.

_________________

If Justin Fields was on the Eagles he'd be a poor man's Jalen Hurts which would be better than half the qb's in the NFL. If he was on the Steelers or Seahawks he's like Russell Wilson when he was a Seahawk.

Jake Plummer
Alex Smith
Johnny Unitas
Jim Plunkett
Rich Gannon
Vinny Testarverde

Idk 2-3 people on that list but it's sounding like if you're a future superstar QB your initial team finds that out pretty quick with the exception of maybe Drew Brees, but that seemed like an injury kind of thing if I remember correctly.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The list of quarterbacks that had an opportunity to be "the guy" on one team, failed miserably, then went to another team and became one of the best in the game, all-time great type quarterbacks includes Steve Young....