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Juiced
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 1:53 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Juiced wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
Last year, Ryan Poles said he'd have to be blown away by a quarterback to use the number 1 pick on him. I think this year is the opposite. He's picking a quarterback with the number 1 pick, and would have to be blown away by a draft haul to move down.
The other difference is this year's pick is going to determine its Poles is a success or a failure.



Not when you have the number one pick and so many teams are in competition for the pick. He'd be nuts to keep that pick when you are getting such a large haul of draft picks and additional players.

Hawk, your unrequited love for Fields notwithstanding, I think you are actually absolutely right with this take. If some team is dumb enough to make a similar or even worse trade with you this year for the #1 overall than the Panthers made last year, the Bears have to take it.


The point of trading away the pick last year was to give yourself draft capital to draft Williams or one of the other QB's in a deep QB draft. They hit the lottery when the Panthers gave them the #1 pick this year. They no longer have to package 2 picks to get a QB.

Trading away the #1 pick and NOT picking up either Williams or Maye would be the end of Ryan Poles and a complete organizational failure by the Bears.

Trade down with the 9th pick if you need a 2nd rounder. Missing out on this QB class would be a huge mistake.

Except for the one obvious scenario you aren't taking into account - neither Williams nor Maye are very good NFL QB's, and he takes advantage of another teams desperation to take a QB at all cost.


We do not know if they are very good QB's or not. C.J. Stroud was "not a very good QB" in last years draft and look how that turned out.

The Bears set themselves up to draft a QB this year. You might not have another chance to draft #1 with a generational talent sitting there for you to pick.

No college QB is going to be a sure thing. You could have the next 20 years of first round picks and not have a better QB prospect then Williams to pick. Players like him come around every 25 years! Hense the term Generational Talent!
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 2:00 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Well certainly there are trades that would be worth it. Hey, if the Bears believe Williams is a sure thing they SHOULD take him. There could be another team desperate enough, including the team I root for, though I don't really see them trading up to get a QB. Taking Williams because it seems like the right thing to do and not because you really believe in him would be a mistake. The Bears could trade that pick and still get a QB with a slightly lower first round pick and get even more picks for next year.
Describe the trade that would be worth it for them to trade away #1 and keep Fields.

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Caller Bob
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Jesus fucking Christ every single mock the past 3 weeks has the Bears taking Williams. That's who they are taking, for better or worse. Stop the debate.
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Brick
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The Hawk wrote:
"Every scenario says to trade Fields and draft Williams"? Hilarious opinion. At this point in Fields career development he is a SURE THING unlike the crap shoot that a prima donna college failure named Williams would involve. It's not like Fields is a NFL Failure. That is a sportswriter's bullshit thesis and nothing more. Its like Fields has enrolled in a graduate school for quarterback development and is ready to defend his thesis before the board. He is ready to roll.

If that is true then you trade Fields for a ton of picks and you draft the cheaper Williams with higher upside.

Let the NFL market decide. If Fields is worth as much as you think then get all that value out of him in a trade. If Fields isn't worth as much as you think then get Williams.

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Hawg Ass
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The Hawk wrote:
Brick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
No hindsight at all - i said the day after the trade that the Bears fleeced the Panthers, long before they chose either Young or Stroud. Mortgaging your franchise to move up a few spots its way too risky of a move, and the Bears were lucky to find a team to do it last year. If I were them I'd do it again.

People here have no interest in even exploring the possibility. I'm glad they aren't the GM.

There isn't really a trade that would be worth it. Every scenario says to trade Fields and draft Williams. Either Fields is worth a ton of draft picks on his own and you get those or he isn't worth a ton of draft picks and that means the entire NFL also knows that Williams is a better choice than Fields.

Williams is cheaper with higher upside.


"Every scenario says to trade Fields and draft Williams"? Hilarious opinion. At this point in Fields career development he is a SURE THING unlike the crap shoot that a prima donna college failure named Williams would involve. It's not like Fields is a NFL Failure. That is a sportswriter's bullshit thesis and nothing more. Its like Fields has enrolled in a graduate school for quarterback development and is ready to defend his thesis before the board. He is ready to roll.

You have to be his agent, no way otherwise you can believe the b.s. you type.

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The Doctor Of Style
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:09 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Juiced wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
Last year, Ryan Poles said he'd have to be blown away by a quarterback to use the number 1 pick on him. I think this year is the opposite. He's picking a quarterback with the number 1 pick, and would have to be blown away by a draft haul to move down.
The other difference is this year's pick is going to determine its Poles is a success or a failure.



Not when you have the number one pick and so many teams are in competition for the pick. He'd be nuts to keep that pick when you are getting such a large haul of draft picks and additional players.

Hawk, your unrequited love for Fields notwithstanding, I think you are actually absolutely right with this take. If some team is dumb enough to make a similar or even worse trade with you this year for the #1 overall than the Panthers made last year, the Bears have to take it.


The point of trading away the pick last year was to give yourself draft capital to draft Williams or one of the other QB's in a deep QB draft. They hit the lottery when the Panthers gave them the #1 pick this year. They no longer have to package 2 picks to get a QB.

Trading away the #1 pick and NOT picking up either Williams or Maye would be the end of Ryan Poles and a complete organizational failure by the Bears.

Trade down with the 9th pick if you need a 2nd rounder. Missing out on this QB class would be a huge mistake.

Except for the one obvious scenario you aren't taking into account - neither Williams nor Maye are very good NFL QB's, and he takes advantage of another teams desperation to take a QB at all cost.


We do not know if they are very good QB's or not. C.J. Stroud was "not a very good QB" in last years draft and look how that turned out.

The Bears set themselves up to draft a QB this year. You might not have another chance to draft #1 with a generational talent sitting there for you to pick.

No college QB is going to be a sure thing. You could have the next 20 years of first round picks and not have a better QB prospect then Williams to pick. Players like him come around every 25 years! Hense the term Generational Talent!


There are quite a few people that do not believe that he is a "generational" talent however.

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man of few opinions
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Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Well certainly there are trades that would be worth it. Hey, if the Bears believe Williams is a sure thing they SHOULD take him. There could be another team desperate enough, including the team I root for, though I don't really see them trading up to get a QB. Taking Williams because it seems like the right thing to do and not because you really believe in him would be a mistake. The Bears could trade that pick and still get a QB with a slightly lower first round pick and get even more picks for next year.
Describe the trade that would be worth it for them to trade away #1 and keep Fields.

I'm not an advocate of keeping Justin Fields. I am and advocate of getting as many good players as possible on my team. If the Bears are convinced Caleb Williams is "generational" they should take him. If not, if I were the Bears I would be examining ways of maximizing the return for that pick while still landing a QB with one of your first round picks. So I guess I would describe it as finding the team that REALLY wants Caleb Williams if the Bears aren't convinced, much like they found Carolina last year.
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:16 pm 
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man of few opinions wrote:
I'm not an advocate of keeping Justin Fields. I am and advocate of getting as many good players as possible on my team. If the Bears are convinced Caleb Williams is "generational" they should take him. If not, if I were the Bears I would be examining ways of maximizing the return for that pick while still landing a QB with one of your first round picks. So I guess I would describe it as finding the team that REALLY wants Caleb Williams if the Bears aren't convinced, much like they found Carolina last year.
I agree the Bears shouldn't draft Williams if they think he isn't any good. However, the Bears are stupid if they think he isn't any good.

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Bagels
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Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
I'm not an advocate of keeping Justin Fields. I am and advocate of getting as many good players as possible on my team. If the Bears are convinced Caleb Williams is "generational" they should take him. If not, if I were the Bears I would be examining ways of maximizing the return for that pick while still landing a QB with one of your first round picks. So I guess I would describe it as finding the team that REALLY wants Caleb Williams if the Bears aren't convinced, much like they found Carolina last year.
I agree the Bears shouldn't draft Williams if they think he isn't any good. However, the Bears are stupid if they think he isn't any good.


he might not fit their requirements for character
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The Doctor Of Style
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:31 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
I'm not an advocate of keeping Justin Fields. I am and advocate of getting as many good players as possible on my team. If the Bears are convinced Caleb Williams is "generational" they should take him. If not, if I were the Bears I would be examining ways of maximizing the return for that pick while still landing a QB with one of your first round picks. So I guess I would describe it as finding the team that REALLY wants Caleb Williams if the Bears aren't convinced, much like they found Carolina last year.
I agree the Bears shouldn't draft Williams if they think he isn't any good. However, the Bears are stupid if they think he isn't any good.


he might not fit their requirements for character


He also might not be particularly good either.

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man of few opinions
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Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
I'm not an advocate of keeping Justin Fields. I am and advocate of getting as many good players as possible on my team. If the Bears are convinced Caleb Williams is "generational" they should take him. If not, if I were the Bears I would be examining ways of maximizing the return for that pick while still landing a QB with one of your first round picks. So I guess I would describe it as finding the team that REALLY wants Caleb Williams if the Bears aren't convinced, much like they found Carolina last year.
I agree the Bears shouldn't draft Williams if they think he isn't any good. However, the Bears are stupid if they think he isn't any good.

That remains to be seen. Granted I only watched 2 games he played in this year, so its likely I just missed the generational stuff.
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Keyshawn Johnson
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Bagels wrote:
Brick wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
I'm not an advocate of keeping Justin Fields. I am and advocate of getting as many good players as possible on my team. If the Bears are convinced Caleb Williams is "generational" they should take him. If not, if I were the Bears I would be examining ways of maximizing the return for that pick while still landing a QB with one of your first round picks. So I guess I would describe it as finding the team that REALLY wants Caleb Williams if the Bears aren't convinced, much like they found Carolina last year.
I agree the Bears shouldn't draft Williams if they think he isn't any good. However, the Bears are stupid if they think he isn't any good.


he might not fit their requirements for character


He also might not be particularly good either.


Caleb Williams has all the tools to be a successful NFL quarterback. However, it is still too early to say for sure how he will perform at the next level. He will need to continue to develop his skills, and he will need to be able to adjust to the pro game. If he can do that, then he has the potential to be a star in the NFL
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Nardi
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Juiced wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Juiced wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
Last year, Ryan Poles said he'd have to be blown away by a quarterback to use the number 1 pick on him. I think this year is the opposite. He's picking a quarterback with the number 1 pick, and would have to be blown away by a draft haul to move down.
The other difference is this year's pick is going to determine its Poles is a success or a failure.



Not when you have the number one pick and so many teams are in competition for the pick. He'd be nuts to keep that pick when you are getting such a large haul of draft picks and additional players.

Hawk, your unrequited love for Fields notwithstanding, I think you are actually absolutely right with this take. If some team is dumb enough to make a similar or even worse trade with you this year for the #1 overall than the Panthers made last year, the Bears have to take it.


The point of trading away the pick last year was to give yourself draft capital to draft Williams or one of the other QB's in a deep QB draft. They hit the lottery when the Panthers gave them the #1 pick this year. They no longer have to package 2 picks to get a QB.

Trading away the #1 pick and NOT picking up either Williams or Maye would be the end of Ryan Poles and a complete organizational failure by the Bears.

Trade down with the 9th pick if you need a 2nd rounder. Missing out on this QB class would be a huge mistake.

Except for the one obvious scenario you aren't taking into account - neither Williams nor Maye are very good NFL QB's, and he takes advantage of another teams desperation to take a QB at all cost.


You could have the next 20 years of first round picks and not have a better QB prospect then Williams to pick. Players like him come around every 25 years! Hense the term Generational Talent!

I admire the confidence.

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Big Chicagoan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 7:27 pm 
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Bears are incapable of drafting a QB and should never try.

Bears should:

1. Trade Fields to Atlanta or Las Vegas for their first round pick. Their owners are dumb and will do something like that.

2. Trading Fields will boost the value of the number 1 pick. Trade it to Washington or NE for their first pick, 2025 first pick, 2026 first pick plus a player.

3. Draft Marvin Harrison Jr.

4. Sign Russell Wilson when he gets cut by Broncos on cheap contract because Broncos owe him $76M the next two years.

Bears get a competent QB. Don’t waste money on QB. Don’t draft a bust. Get best player in the draft. Get future firsts from awful teams that won’t be good anytime soon. Have two other top 15 picks to use on positions of need. Have plenty of $ left to fill other holes.

This is the only way Bears are in Super Bowl within 3 seasons. Future firsts from Wash or NE can be used to draft a QB if Russell sucks.
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veganfan21
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 7:29 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Bears are incapable of drafting a QB and should never try.



Future firsts from Wash or NE can be used to draft a QB if Russell sucks.

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denisdman
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veganfan21 wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Bears are incapable of drafting a QB and should never try.



Future firsts from Wash or NE can be used to draft a QB if Russell sucks.


And that was the big flaw in Goff’s argument too. He doesn’t trust the Bears period. If the Bears are incapable of making an important pick, then nothing they do matters anyway.

They have to be able to identify the best QB in this draft.

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veganfan21 wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Bears are incapable of drafting a QB and should never try.



Future firsts from Wash or NE can be used to draft a QB if Russell sucks.

:lol:

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Caller Bob
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Bears are incapable of drafting a QB and should never try.

Bears should:

1. Trade Fields to Atlanta or Las Vegas for their first round pick. Their owners are dumb and will do something like that.

2. Trading Fields will boost the value of the number 1 pick. Trade it to Washington or NE for their first pick, 2025 first pick, 2026 first pick plus a player.

3. Draft Marvin Harrison Jr.

4. Sign Russell Wilson when he gets cut by Broncos on cheap contract because Broncos owe him $76M the next two years.

Bears get a competent QB. Don’t waste money on QB. Don’t draft a bust. Get best player in the draft. Get future firsts from awful teams that won’t be good anytime soon. Have two other top 15 picks to use on positions of need. Have plenty of $ left to fill other holes.

This is the only way Bears are in Super Bowl within 3 seasons. Future firsts from Wash or NE can be used to draft a QB if Russell sucks.

Sweet Jesus what an awful plan
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The Hawk
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Caller Bob wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ every single mock the past 3 weeks has the Bears taking Williams. That's who they are taking, for better or worse. Stop the debate.


Look at the who the Bear's just hired as their OC staff. They are hired to complete the development of Justin Fields into a pro bowl quarterback.

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badrogue17
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Bears are incapable of drafting a QB and should never try.

Bears should:

1. Trade Fields to Atlanta or Las Vegas for their first round pick. Their owners are dumb and will do something like that.

2. Trading Fields will boost the value of the number 1 pick. Trade it to Washington or NE for their first pick, 2025 first pick, 2026 first pick plus a player.

3. Draft Marvin Harrison Jr.

4. Sign Russell Wilson when he gets cut by Broncos on cheap contract because Broncos owe him $76M the next two years.

Bears get a competent QB. Don’t waste money on QB. Don’t draft a bust. Get best player in the draft. Get future firsts from awful teams that won’t be good anytime soon. Have two other top 15 picks to use on positions of need. Have plenty of $ left to fill other holes.

This is the only way Bears are in Super Bowl within 3 seasons. Future firsts from Wash or NE can be used to draft a QB if Russell sucks.

Holy fucking shit , been awhile BC !!

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The Hawk
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Brick wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
"Every scenario says to trade Fields and draft Williams"? Hilarious opinion. At this point in Fields career development he is a SURE THING unlike the crap shoot that a prima donna college failure named Williams would involve. It's not like Fields is a NFL Failure. That is a sportswriter's bullshit thesis and nothing more. Its like Fields has enrolled in a graduate school for quarterback development and is ready to defend his thesis before the board. He is ready to roll.

If that is true then you trade Fields for a ton of picks and you draft the cheaper Williams with higher upside.

Let the NFL market decide. If Fields is worth as much as you think then get all that value out of him in a trade. If Fields isn't worth as much as you think then get Williams.


In your scenario, the Bear's wind up with a team with no quarterback and a lot of draft picks but with no future.

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The Hawk
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badrogue17 wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Bears are incapable of drafting a QB and should never try.

Bears should:

1. Trade Fields to Atlanta or Las Vegas for their first round pick. Their owners are dumb and will do something like that.

2. Trading Fields will boost the value of the number 1 pick. Trade it to Washington or NE for their first pick, 2025 first pick, 2026 first pick plus a player.

3. Draft Marvin Harrison Jr.

4. Sign Russell Wilson when he gets cut by Broncos on cheap contract because Broncos owe him $76M the next two years.

Bears get a competent QB. Don’t waste money on QB. Don’t draft a bust. Get best player in the draft. Get future firsts from awful teams that won’t be good anytime soon. Have two other top 15 picks to use on positions of need. Have plenty of $ left to fill other holes.

This is the only way Bears are in Super Bowl within 3 seasons. Future firsts from Wash or NE can be used to draft a QB if Russell sucks.

Holy fucking shit , been awhile BC !!
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Bears are incapable of drafting a QB and should never try.

Bears should:

1. Trade Fields to Atlanta or Las Vegas for their first round pick. Their owners are dumb and will do something like that.

2. Trading Fields will boost the value of the number 1 pick. Trade it to Washington or NE for their first pick, 2025 first pick, 2026 first pick plus a player.

3. Draft Marvin Harrison Jr.

4. Sign Russell Wilson when he gets cut by Broncos on cheap contract because Broncos owe him $76M the next two years.

Bears get a competent QB. Don’t waste money on QB. Don’t draft a bust. Get best player in the draft. Get future firsts from awful teams that won’t be good anytime soon. Have two other top 15 picks to use on positions of need. Have plenty of $ left to fill other holes.

This is the only way Bears are in Super Bowl within 3 seasons. Future firsts from Wash or NE can be used to draft a QB if Russell sucks.



A "competent" quarterback is the ticket now? Wonder how Sean Payton feels about the worth of Russell Wilson these days?

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Juiced
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 9:53 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
Bears are incapable of drafting a QB and should never try.

Bears should:

1. Trade Fields to Atlanta or Las Vegas for their first round pick. Their owners are dumb and will do something like that.

2. Trading Fields will boost the value of the number 1 pick. Trade it to Washington or NE for their first pick, 2025 first pick, 2026 first pick plus a player.

3. Draft Marvin Harrison Jr.

4. Sign Russell Wilson when he gets cut by Broncos on cheap contract because Broncos owe him $76M the next two years.

Bears get a competent QB. Don’t waste money on QB. Don’t draft a bust. Get best player in the draft. Get future firsts from awful teams that won’t be good anytime soon. Have two other top 15 picks to use on positions of need. Have plenty of $ left to fill other holes.

This is the only way Bears are in Super Bowl within 3 seasons. Future firsts from Wash or NE can be used to draft a QB if Russell sucks.

Sweet Jesus what an awful plan


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Juiced
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The Hawk wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ every single mock the past 3 weeks has the Bears taking Williams. That's who they are taking, for better or worse. Stop the debate.


Look at the who the Bear's just hired as their OC staff. They are hired to complete the development of Justin Fields into a pro bowl quarterback.


Fields could sell his soul to the devil and the devil himself could not even make J.Fields a pro bowl QB
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Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 7:53 am 
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The Hawk wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
"Every scenario says to trade Fields and draft Williams"? Hilarious opinion. At this point in Fields career development he is a SURE THING unlike the crap shoot that a prima donna college failure named Williams would involve. It's not like Fields is a NFL Failure. That is a sportswriter's bullshit thesis and nothing more. Its like Fields has enrolled in a graduate school for quarterback development and is ready to defend his thesis before the board. He is ready to roll.

If that is true then you trade Fields for a ton of picks and you draft the cheaper Williams with higher upside.

Let the NFL market decide. If Fields is worth as much as you think then get all that value out of him in a trade. If Fields isn't worth as much as you think then get Williams.


In your scenario, the Bear's wind up with a team with no quarterback and a lot of draft picks but with no future.
No. They end up with Williams.

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veganfan21
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:00 am 
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The Bears should sign Fields to a 20 year contract to ensure he has sufficient time to develop into a mediocre QB.

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KDdidit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:34 pm 
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Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:36 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:



Keyshawn not getting the job.

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The Hawk
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:21 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ every single mock the past 3 weeks has the Bears taking Williams. That's who they are taking, for better or worse. Stop the debate.



That's why they call those things MOCK DRAFTS. Because no serious GM would ever draft Williams and had the chance to get the haul of draft picks and players that trading the number one pick would give them.

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The Hawk
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:25 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
Brick wrote:
Nardi wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
No hindsight at all - i said the day after the trade that the Bears fleeced the Panthers, long before they chose either Young or Stroud. Mortgaging your franchise to move up a few spots its way too risky of a move, and the Bears were lucky to find a team to do it last year. If I were them I'd do it again.

People here have no interest in even exploring the possibility. I'm glad they aren't the GM.

There isn't really a trade that would be worth it. Every scenario says to trade Fields and draft Williams. Either Fields is worth a ton of draft picks on his own and you get those or he isn't worth a ton of draft picks and that means the entire NFL also knows that Williams is a better choice than Fields.

Williams is cheaper with higher upside.


"Every scenario says to trade Fields and draft Williams"? Hilarious opinion. At this point in Fields career development he is a SURE THING unlike the crap shoot that a prima donna college failure named Williams would involve. It's not like Fields is a NFL Failure. That is a sportswriter's bullshit thesis and nothing more. Its like Fields has enrolled in a graduate school for quarterback development and is ready to defend his thesis before the board. He is ready to roll.

You have to be his agent, no way otherwise you can believe the b.s. you type.



He is half a draft away from having a team to lead that will be a Super Bowl contender.

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