Should Mike Vick be in the HOF? He was the best running quarterback of all time. Should we ignore that he wasn't a great passer?

I get there is a position called Kick Returner but it is pretty much just players from other positions also playing it.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

So it's not that you don't think Hester belongs in the hall, more like you don't think the position should be in the hall.

That's not too far off. I don't think every position should be a lock for it. I don't think the best punt team gunner should be in the HOF either. I don't think the best field goal/extra point LT should be in the HOF either.

I just can't help but look at Devin Hester and think that there were at least 20 other similar players you'd rather have over him every single year and that isn't including quarterbacks or running backs.

Why not just do offense, defense, and ST wings? Any significant special teamer can/should deserve consideration as a special teamer.

Why not just do offense, defense, and ST wings? Any significant special teamer can/should deserve consideration as a special teamer.

turn Fields into a kick returner

I am not a legal expert, how many times do I have to say it?

I have MANY years of experience in trying to appreciate steaming piles of dogshit.

No because Vick did not dominate his position over the course of his career.

Hester did.

“My argument for him is how he changed the game,” said Kansas City Chiefs special teams coordinator Dave Toub, who held that title with the Bears from 2004 through 2012. “They always talk about Hall of Fame guys, how they changed the game. He definitely changed the game. After Devin came into the league, everybody had to have a returner. Everyone wanted a guy like that because that is how we won games. We won games on defense and special teams. We proved you could do that.

“Everybody had to get a returner and then they had to get cover guys. Teams started getting guys for their roster that could run and tackle in space where their job was to cover kicks. Gunners became real important and then the emphasis on the kickers. They had to get better. They had to kick better. They had to get stronger legs so they could kick touchbacks. They had to get a better variety of kicks. There was a whole shift of personnel because you didn’t have big guys running down on kickoffs anymore.”

Kickers had to be more precise with their placement. They risked a costly penalty if an effort to pin the ball near the sideline rolled out of bounds. Punters had to be far more careful. Longtime special teams coordinator Joe DeCamillis, who worked for the Bears in 2013-14, said he directed his punters to kick short to Hester, which set up the offense with better field position. The theory was there was less space for the coverage team to travel.

That's not too far off. I don't think every position should be a lock for it. I don't think the best punt team gunner should be in the HOF either. I don't think the best field goal/extra point LT should be in the HOF either.

I just can't help but look at Devin Hester and think that there were at least 20 other similar players you'd rather have over him every single year and that isn't including quarterbacks or running backs.

And as Biggs' article argues, the game changed as a result.

In terms of changing the game, they literally eliminated a phase of a football game due to Devin Hester.

Are you stoned or pissed off, or both, when you create these postings?

You're splitting these positional classifications too fine. If you want to employ that logic you can work your way into insane places for just about any position. Mark Buehrle isn't a starting pitcher, he's a crafty, a soft-tossing, left handed, starting pitcher. Therefore, since he was one of the best of those in his generation he belongs in the Hall.

In terms of impact to the team, the Bears would have traded him for 20 other WRs in the NFL straight up even at his peak.

The future holds the possibility to be great or terrible, and since it has not yet occurred it remains simultaneously both.

Why didn't they?

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

Why didn't they?

In terms of changing the game, they literally eliminated a phase of a football game due to Devin Hester.

We lose a lot of rights when we look the other way when it doesn't affect our lives or it isn't a cause we agree with.

Why didn't they?

Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.

Lovie is a fool, he thought Hester was a #1 WR...paid him to be one

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.

Lovie is a fool, he thought Hester was a #1 WR...paid him to be one

I am not a legal expert, how many times do I have to say it?

That's one of my points. I don't think we should judge Hester as a punt/kick returner alone given so much of the equal competition he would have had ended up choosing to not do that because it isn't nearly as valuable.

That's like saying the_hawk shouldn't be considered an idiot because he was born with a silver spoon

That's one of my points. I don't think we should judge Hester as a punt/kick returner alone given so much of the equal competition he would have had ended up choosing to not do that because it isn't nearly as valuable.

The menstrual cycle changes among Hassidic Jewish women was something as well.

Silver spoon?