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 Post subject: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:47 am 
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Here's Simms on the top WR prospects:



https://youtu.be/t-aoCOOhqRo?si=PFnAH8sKWIbLbPA0

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:54 am 
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Very nasty! Vegan has me on ignore.

I've watched MHJ against Michigan twice and the rest has been all highlights from YouTube. I don't know if the issues Simms has with his game are legit. If he's there at #9, I would draft him.

I really love Keon Coleman and Mitchell Adonai. I think you can trade down a couple of times and still get either one of them.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 10:59 am 
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Take a white.

We need a shifty slot guy and the Irishman from Georgia merits a strong look.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:09 am 
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I like Brian Thomas Jr but no rational human being would take him over Marvin Harrison Jr.


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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:26 am 
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Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:29 am 
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One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:31 am 
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Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.

Why wouldn’t you take a left tackle that could protect your prized possession’s blind side for the next 10 years. Wide receivers can be found later in the draft, I happen to know.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:32 am 
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1st round draft picks last 5 years...21 was crazy good



2023
1 1 20 20 Jaxon Smith-Njigba Seahawks Ohio State
2 1 21 21 Quentin Johnston Chargers Texas Christian
3 1 22 22 Zay Flowers Ravens Boston College
4 1 23 23 Jordan Addison Vikings USC
2022
1 1 8 8 Drake London Falcons USC
2 1 10 10 Garrett Wilson Jets Ohio State
3 1 11 11 Chris Olave Saints Ohio State
4 1 12 12 Jameson Williams Lions Alabama
5 1 16 16 Jahan Dotson Commanders Penn State
6 1 18 18 Treylon Burks Titans Arkansas
2021
1 1 5 5 Ja'Marr Chase Bengals Louisiana State
2 1 6 6 Jaylen Waddle Dolphins Alabama
3 1 10 10 DeVonta Smith Eagles Alabama
4 1 20 20 Kadarius Toney Giants Florida
5 1 27 27 Rashod Bateman Ravens Minnesota
2020
1 1 12 12 Henry Ruggs Raiders Alabama
2 1 15 15 Jerry Jeudy Broncos Alabama
3 1 17 17 CeeDee Lamb Cowboys Oklahoma
4 1 21 21 Jalen Reagor Eagles Texas Christian
5 1 22 22 Justin Jefferson Vikings Louisiana State
6 1 25 25 Brandon Aiyuk 49ers Arizona State
2019
1 1 25 25 Marquise Brown Ravens Oklahoma
2 1 32 32 N'Keal Harry Patriots Arizona State
2018
1 1 24 24 D.J. Moore Panthers Maryland
2 1 26 26 Calvin Ridley Falcons Alabama
2017
1 1 5 5 Corey Davis Titans Western Michigan
2 1 7 7 Mike Williams Chargers Clemson
3 1 9 9 John Ross Bengals Washington


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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:35 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.

Why wouldn’t you take a left tackle that could protect your prized possession’s blind side for the next 10 years. Wide receivers can be found later in the draft, I happen to know.


We have a LT that we're happy with. More importantly, Alt will be gone at #7.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:35 am 
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and just a digression...

the British series "Inside No 9" is phenomenal...twilight zone in a black comedy...short episodes all different, but the same two actors...seek it out, you'll thank me


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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:40 am 
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Nas wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.

Why wouldn’t you take a left tackle that could protect your prized possession’s blind side for the next 10 years. Wide receivers can be found later in the draft, I happen to know.


We have a LT that we're happy with. More importantly, Alt will be gone at #7.

Jones is a very good run blocker but below average in pass pro.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:48 am 
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Nas wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.

Why wouldn’t you take a left tackle that could protect your prized possession’s blind side for the next 10 years. Wide receivers can be found later in the draft, I happen to know.


We have a LT that we're happy with. More importantly, Alt will be gone at #7.

I don’t necessarily agree with your first part and Alt isn’t the only one.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:52 am 
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One Post wrote:

What am I missing?


An In person report of the Bears WR room


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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:09 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.

Why wouldn’t you take a left tackle that could protect your prized possession’s blind side for the next 10 years. Wide receivers can be found later in the draft, I happen to know.


We have a LT that we're happy with. More importantly, Alt will be gone at #7.

Jones is a very good run blocker but below average in pass pro.



I don't think he's below average as a pass blocker.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:12 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.

Why wouldn’t you take a left tackle that could protect your prized possession’s blind side for the next 10 years. Wide receivers can be found later in the draft, I happen to know.


We have a LT that we're happy with. More importantly, Alt will be gone at #7.

Jones is a very good run blocker but below average in pass pro.



I don't think he's below average as a pass blocker.


5th overall in pass block win rate per the individual rankings.

I've said this before, the line isn't all-time great but it's better than the perception people have due to all the slander from the Cult.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/383 ... teams#pbwr

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:13 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.

Why wouldn’t you take a left tackle that could protect your prized possession’s blind side for the next 10 years. Wide receivers can be found later in the draft, I happen to know.


We have a LT that we're happy with. More importantly, Alt will be gone at #7.

I don’t necessarily agree with your first part and Alt isn’t the only one.


Alt is the only guy who looks good pass/run blocking. Olu looks like a pussy run blocking. I like Fuaga a lot and Latham has potential, but I just don't see the position as a need. We'll see if Poles does.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:16 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:

5th overall in pass block win rate per the individual rankings.

I've said this before, the line isn't all-time great but it's better than the perception people have due to all the slander from the Cult.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/383 ... teams#pbwr


Based on that list, Braxton Jones is top 10 at both.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:19 pm 
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Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

5th overall in pass block win rate per the individual rankings.

I've said this before, the line isn't all-time great but it's better than the perception people have due to all the slander from the Cult.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/383 ... teams#pbwr


Based on that list, Braxton Jones is top 10 at both.


Yep, the line should sue the cult for defamation.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:20 pm 
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Doesn't Waldron aspire to having 20 tight ends on the roster?

Prepare yourselves for the Brock Bowers era.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:21 pm 
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Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

5th overall in pass block win rate per the individual rankings.

I've said this before, the line isn't all-time great but it's better than the perception people have due to all the slander from the Cult.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/383 ... teams#pbwr


Based on that list, Braxton Jones is top 10 at both.


He wasn't very good after the neck injury, and the line still gave up a fair number of jailbreak rushes.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:23 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Doesn't Waldron aspire to having 20 tight ends on the roster?

Prepare yourselves for the Brock Bowers era.


It usually takes a TE a year to adjust, so he would be replacing Everett next year.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:24 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

5th overall in pass block win rate per the individual rankings.

I've said this before, the line isn't all-time great but it's better than the perception people have due to all the slander from the Cult.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/383 ... teams#pbwr


Based on that list, Braxton Jones is top 10 at both.


He wasn't very good after the neck injury, and the line still gave up a fair number of jailbreak rushes.


I don't disagree about him taking a half step back. I did think the line was really good until the Packers game.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:30 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Nas wrote:
This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.

Why wouldn’t you take a left tackle that could protect your prized possession’s blind side for the next 10 years. Wide receivers can be found later in the draft, I happen to know.


We have a LT that we're happy with. More importantly, Alt will be gone at #7.

Jones is a very good run blocker but below average in pass pro.



I don't think he's below average as a pass blocker.


5th overall in pass block win rate per the individual rankings.

I've said this before, the line isn't all-time great but it's better than the perception people have due to all the slander from the Cult.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/383 ... teams#pbwr

I guess it depends on where you look.
PFF grades are not everything by any means, but Jones finished the season ranked 11th amongst left tackles with enough qualified snaps in PFF grade. That came with a 21st-best grade in pass blocking and the fourth-best run blocking grade. Overall, that appears to match the tape.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:37 pm 
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Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.


There will be more teams that leave this draft without one of the talented WRs than teams that do leave with a talented WR.

They had a center that had to be removed from the lineup because he quite literally couldn't snap the ball. Why not take that C from Oregon? Whatever you think of Fields, I'm sure the various turnstiles in front of him at more than one OL position didn't help. The Bears are about to pick a QB at #1, why not keep him healthy?


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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:38 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I guess it depends on where you look.
PFF grades are not everything by any means, but Jones finished the season ranked 11th amongst left tackles with enough qualified snaps in PFF grade. That came with a 21st-best grade in pass blocking and the fourth-best run blocking grade. Overall, that appears to match the tape.


What's PFF's criteria? ESPN's is simple:

Quote:
Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Likewise, our pass block win rate metric conveys the rate linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer.

In run stop win rate, a defender can earn a win by doing any of the following: beating his blocker so he's in better position to stop the runner; disrupting the pocket or running lane by pushing his blocker backwards; containing the runner such that he must adjust his running lane; or recording a tackle within three yards of the line of scrimmage. If a defender earns a run stop win, his blocker earns a loss, and vice versa.


If PFF is penalizing Jones for letting rushers beat him four hours into Fields' dropback then I'd have issues.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:43 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Nas wrote:
One Post wrote:
Isn't the Keenan Allen trade getting your second WR. I just assumed #9 would be used on an OL guy or trade down and take OL guy at appropriate spot. Still have 3 picks likely in the top 40 next year to get a WR after Allen leaves?

What am I missing?


This may be the most talented WR group in history. You can't leave this draft without getting one. Keenan Allen is 32. He's a temporary safety blanket for a young quarterback. You still need another long-term option.

I seriously doubt they'll take a lineman at #9. If they didn't trade down, it'll be WR or DE.


There will be more teams that leave this draft without one of the talented WRs than teams that do leave with a talented WR.

They had a center that had to be removed from the lineup because he quite literally couldn't snap the ball. Why not take that C from Oregon? Whatever you think of Fields, I'm sure the various turnstiles in front of him at more than one OL position didn't help. The Bears are about to pick a QB at #1, why not keep him healthy?


They signed a league average center. While they may address center in the draft, I seriously doubt they would use their 9th pick on the kid with three last names. IMO, center was the only position of need on the offensive line. Outside of that, they just needed better depth options. I also think a potentially great WR is more important than an overhyped center.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:24 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
I guess it depends on where you look.
PFF grades are not everything by any means, but Jones finished the season ranked 11th amongst left tackles with enough qualified snaps in PFF grade. That came with a 21st-best grade in pass blocking and the fourth-best run blocking grade. Overall, that appears to match the tape.


What's PFF's criteria? ESPN's is simple:

Quote:
Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Likewise, our pass block win rate metric conveys the rate linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer.

In run stop win rate, a defender can earn a win by doing any of the following: beating his blocker so he's in better position to stop the runner; disrupting the pocket or running lane by pushing his blocker backwards; containing the runner such that he must adjust his running lane; or recording a tackle within three yards of the line of scrimmage. If a defender earns a run stop win, his blocker earns a loss, and vice versa.


If PFF is penalizing Jones for letting rushers beat him four hours into Fields' dropback then I'd have issues.

SUCCESSFUL BLOCKS
A successful pass block is when a player achieves a PFF pass-blocking grade of 0 or above on a scale ranging from -2 to 2. This is essentially a play in which he does not “mess up.” But these raw numbers lack the critical context that allows us to evaluate the blockers who most often succeed in their assignment. Not all blocks are created equal. Blocking against Aaron Donald or T.J. Watt is not the same as blocking against an average defensive lineman. Blocking on a screen or a quick-developing route is far easier than doing so on a seven-yard drop with long developing routes.

To account for such contextual factors, we've created a model that incorporates game factors such as down, distance and yards to go. It adjusts a successful block grade for an offensive lineman’s position, the matched-up defenders position, determinative features such as RPO and screens and other features such as dropback depth and the talent of defender (measured by past PFF pass-rushing grades weighted toward the proximity of a given play).

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:29 pm 
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If JJ McCarthy really does go higher than #9 it's a gift for the Bears. It wouldn't even shock me if another QB gets over
drafted higher than 9 too if that happens.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 3:09 pm 
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I've convinced myself that trading down is the best way to go at #9. If MHJ is there, all bets are off.

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 Post subject: Re: #9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 3:12 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I've convinced myself that trading down is the best way to go at #9. If MHJ is there, all bets are off.


What if you hold it and hope McCarthy falls. If he does, sell the pick to Denver/Minny/whomever for a "haul."
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