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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:47 am 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
I think the question is whether you go to games at Soldier Field, not whether you anchor vacations with a game.


Why does it matter if I attend or not? My point is that the stadium will fill up whether I go or not. The Bears have never depended upon Palos Hills or Des Plaines to sellout Soldier Field. And I doubt very seriously if they are going to start depending in them now.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:48 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
How many games a year does Dr Style attend?


I travel out of town with the team every year and have for the last 12-13 years. Have you?

And I doubt very seriously if you are a season ticket holder either

I don't live in the Chicago area.

I'm also not talking about how fans are only loyal to the Bears if they have the right zip code.

But you still felt compelled to "question" my loyalty didn't ya? Or wonder why I would have an opinion even though it's fine for you to have one didn't you? Just Asking Questions
Well the team is named the "Chicago Bears" you know. And if that didn't matter, then name then the Arlington Heights Bears the second that they move and where that gets ya aye?

You can be loyal and not attend games.

But it seems strange to no longer support the Bears if they move to a wrong zip code if you aren't going to games in their current zip code.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:13 am 
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how would it be worse to drive out to arlington? you can probably get there faster than you can get from the north side to the stadium now, during peak traffic. everyone piling into downtown, or everyone going to a spot thats more central to where more people actually live. plus again, right now theyre near a bunch of people that cant afford to go to the games. in arlington, i would bet most season ticket holders already live in that area.

the one thing that makes be believe they will stay downtown is the ariel shots. sounds dumb, but that matters. where they are at now will always be more nostalgic than anywhere else they could go.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:32 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
I think the question is whether you go to games at Soldier Field, not whether you anchor vacations with a game.


Why does it matter if I attend or not? My point is that the stadium will fill up whether I go or not. The Bears have never depended upon Palos Hills or Des Plaines to sellout Soldier Field. And I doubt very seriously if they are going to start depending in them now.

It doesn’t matter if you go to any games. It’s a question.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:47 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Location doesn't matter. They just need a dome. It's stupid to play outdoor sports of any kind in Chicago in December.

But everyone just has complaints about any option.


Yes it does. The second the Bears leave Chicago a helluva lot of the support that they have garnered as "Chicago's team" goes out the door with them. Chicago Bears of Arlington Heights just won't move the needle anywhere near as much.

I would agree if they moved out of state, but it's the same county, I don't think they lose any support. The Bears have one of of the biggest fanbases in the NFL but should be the biggest and isn't because of McCaskey mismanagement for 40 years. George would never move the team out of state and everyone knows it so they essentially have no leverage with a new stadium anywhere.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:52 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
The only people that will benefit from the Bears moving to Arlington Heights are those that are connected to the city, county and state that'll get a taste of all of the development and contracting work.

daaahhh I'm from Cary and I gotta van it's called The Monsters of the Midway Ultimate Tailgate Cruiser, and it's our family tradition to drive to Soldier's Field every game in it and make beer brats BUT NOT LIKE PACKERS FANS, and we get both kinds of potato salad and everything, cept the traffic's so bad sometimes it's hard to find a place to park! But now I can just take 14 right through Palatine and all which is super easy and there'll be lots of parking so that's good. And there's a Metra for other people to take.

The hardcore tailgaters get there so early there's no traffic, but spot on everywhere else.

You said you live near Arlington right? Same here, I'm very impressed by the school districts not caving. Someone had to realize how much this would change the area and I'm glad they held their ground so far.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:55 am 
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Brick wrote:
I said this before they even wanted a new stadium but the Bears likely had the worst deal from the city/state in football and likely all major pro sports. Even now the Bears offer $2 billion for a stadium they won't own and everyone is like "That's not enough" while most other teams say "You'll get almost nothing from us and give us everything or we move to Vegas or San Antonio or London". The Jaguars, who no one cares about, are offering less than a billion though the project seems to be a smaller scale.


Is that a function of the McCaskeys not having a strong enough pull in government, their inability to use the media to sway opinions, or just the way Illinois and city politics are here compared to other areas?

Everyone knows George would never move the team so the classic leverage play that is always used for stadiums is unavailable to him, so he has Kevin Warren talking about needing a stadium downtown to save children from the violence of the streets.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:23 am 
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Ricky11Slade wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Location doesn't matter. They just need a dome. It's stupid to play outdoor sports of any kind in Chicago in December.

But everyone just has complaints about any option.


Yes it does. The second the Bears leave Chicago a helluva lot of the support that they have garnered as "Chicago's team" goes out the door with them. Chicago Bears of Arlington Heights just won't move the needle anywhere near as much.

I would agree if they moved out of state, but it's the same county, I don't think they lose any support. The Bears have one of of the biggest fanbases in the NFL but should be the biggest and isn't because of McCaskey mismanagement for 40 years. George would never move the team out of state and everyone knows it so they essentially have no leverage with a new stadium anywhere.


Over the years there have been a ton of teams that have attempted that same move thinking their fans would go with them and it has been a flop. I can remember when Foxboro would be empty. And that was the case even when New England wasn't really terrible. The Bears have the most loyal fanbase in the NFL. If they leave for Arlington Heights there will be a number of loyal fans that will view it as an act of betrayal.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:27 am 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
I think the question is whether you go to games at Soldier Field, not whether you anchor vacations with a game.


Why does it matter if I attend or not? My point is that the stadium will fill up whether I go or not. The Bears have never depended upon Palos Hills or Des Plaines to sellout Soldier Field. And I doubt very seriously if they are going to start depending in them now.

It doesn’t matter if you go to any games. It’s a question.


Who cares? And if you're asking then obviously it matters to you.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:29 am 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
How many games a year does Dr Style attend?


I travel out of town with the team every year and have for the last 12-13 years. Have you?

And I doubt very seriously if you are a season ticket holder either

I don't live in the Chicago area.

I'm also not talking about how fans are only loyal to the Bears if they have the right zip code.

But you still felt compelled to "question" my loyalty didn't ya? Or wonder why I would have an opinion even though it's fine for you to have one didn't you? Just Asking Questions
Well the team is named the "Chicago Bears" you know. And if that didn't matter, then name then the Arlington Heights Bears the second that they move and where that gets ya aye?

You can be loyal and not attend games.

But it seems strange to no longer support the Bears if they move to a wrong zip code if you aren't going to games in their current zip code.


MY POINT NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME THOUGH.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:14 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
I think the question is whether you go to games at Soldier Field, not whether you anchor vacations with a game.


Why does it matter if I attend or not? My point is that the stadium will fill up whether I go or not. The Bears have never depended upon Palos Hills or Des Plaines to sellout Soldier Field. And I doubt very seriously if they are going to start depending in them now.

It doesn’t matter if you go to any games. It’s a question.


Who cares? And if you're asking then obviously it matters to you.

I’m asking because I thought you misunderstood the question, not because it matters.

You made a point that if suburbanites stopped selling out soldier field, Chicagoans would pick up the slack due to their pride in a few area codes. You were then asked if you go to games and you brought up leaving the city to go see your beloved Bears.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:21 am 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
I think the question is whether you go to games at Soldier Field, not whether you anchor vacations with a game.


Why does it matter if I attend or not? My point is that the stadium will fill up whether I go or not. The Bears have never depended upon Palos Hills or Des Plaines to sellout Soldier Field. And I doubt very seriously if they are going to start depending in them now.

It doesn’t matter if you go to any games. It’s a question.


Who cares? And if you're asking then obviously it matters to you.

I’m asking because I thought you misunderstood the question, not because it matters.

You made a point that if suburbanites stopped selling out soldier field, Chicagoans would pick up the slack due to their pride in a few area codes. You were then asked if you go to games and you brought up leaving the city to go see your beloved Bears.


ITS NOT ABOUT ME THOUGH!!!! ANYMORE THAN IT IS ABOUT OUT OF STATE BRICK EITHER.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:29 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Ricky11Slade wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Location doesn't matter. They just need a dome. It's stupid to play outdoor sports of any kind in Chicago in December.

But everyone just has complaints about any option.


Yes it does. The second the Bears leave Chicago a helluva lot of the support that they have garnered as "Chicago's team" goes out the door with them. Chicago Bears of Arlington Heights just won't move the needle anywhere near as much.

I would agree if they moved out of state, but it's the same county, I don't think they lose any support. The Bears have one of of the biggest fanbases in the NFL but should be the biggest and isn't because of McCaskey mismanagement for 40 years. George would never move the team out of state and everyone knows it so they essentially have no leverage with a new stadium anywhere.


Over the years there have been a ton of teams that have attempted that same move thinking their fans would go with them and it has been a flop. I can remember when Foxboro would be empty. And that was the case even when New England wasn't really terrible. The Bears have the most loyal fanbase in the NFL. If they leave for Arlington Heights there will be a number of loyal fans that will view it as an act of betrayal.

I think your point on the actual city of Chicago residents applies to all things, not just the Bears. For the most part, the suburbs don't even exist to city residents. I don't know Bears fans are the absolute #1 most loyal, but they are certainly in the top 3. Raiders, Steelers, Eagles, Bills....all pretty loyal.

I think you're over-estimating the % of game attendees that are city residents. Any loss of fandom because of leaving city will be negligible. I can also attest to season ticket holders, as my Mom was a season ticket holder for years, as were my Aunt and Uncle. I've been to more Bears games than I can count in my lifetime and I assure you...when the Vikings, Lions, and Packers come to Soldier Field you see tons of their fans in seats. Bad Bears teams and season ticket holders sell a lot of their games off. It's been that way for years.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:43 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Ricky11Slade wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Location doesn't matter. They just need a dome. It's stupid to play outdoor sports of any kind in Chicago in December.

But everyone just has complaints about any option.


Yes it does. The second the Bears leave Chicago a helluva lot of the support that they have garnered as "Chicago's team" goes out the door with them. Chicago Bears of Arlington Heights just won't move the needle anywhere near as much.

I would agree if they moved out of state, but it's the same county, I don't think they lose any support. The Bears have one of of the biggest fanbases in the NFL but should be the biggest and isn't because of McCaskey mismanagement for 40 years. George would never move the team out of state and everyone knows it so they essentially have no leverage with a new stadium anywhere.


Over the years there have been a ton of teams that have attempted that same move thinking their fans would go with them and it has been a flop. I can remember when Foxboro would be empty. And that was the case even when New England wasn't really terrible. The Bears have the most loyal fanbase in the NFL. If they leave for Arlington Heights there will be a number of loyal fans that will view it as an act of betrayal.

Probably but I think the amount of people dropping their fandom over a move to AH is minuscule

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:01 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
I think your point on the actual city of Chicago residents applies to all things, not just the Bears. For the most part, the suburbs don't even exist to city residents..

You mean to tell me that the "average Lifelong Chicagoan" doesn't know where the vaunted , now defunct Hinsdale Oasis happened to be? The nerve of him!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:06 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Ricky11Slade wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Location doesn't matter. They just need a dome. It's stupid to play outdoor sports of any kind in Chicago in December.

But everyone just has complaints about any option.


Yes it does. The second the Bears leave Chicago a helluva lot of the support that they have garnered as "Chicago's team" goes out the door with them. Chicago Bears of Arlington Heights just won't move the needle anywhere near as much.

I would agree if they moved out of state, but it's the same county, I don't think they lose any support. The Bears have one of of the biggest fanbases in the NFL but should be the biggest and isn't because of McCaskey mismanagement for 40 years. George would never move the team out of state and everyone knows it so they essentially have no leverage with a new stadium anywhere.


Over the years there have been a ton of teams that have attempted that same move thinking their fans would go with them and it has been a flop. I can remember when Foxboro would be empty. And that was the case even when New England wasn't really terrible. The Bears have the most loyal fanbase in the NFL. If they leave for Arlington Heights there will be a number of loyal fans that will view it as an act of betrayal.

I think your point on the actual city of Chicago residents applies to all things, not just the Bears. For the most part, the suburbs don't even exist to city residents. I don't know Bears fans are the absolute #1 most loyal, but they are certainly in the top 3. Raiders, Steelers, Eagles, Bills....all pretty loyal.

I think you're over-estimating the % of game attendees that are city residents. Any loss of fandom because of leaving city will be negligible. I can also attest to season ticket holders, as my Mom was a season ticket holder for years, as were my Aunt and Uncle. I've been to more Bears games than I can count in my lifetime and I assure you...when the Vikings, Lions, and Packers come to Soldier Field you see tons of their fans in seats. Bad Bears teams and season ticket holders sell a lot of their games off. It's been that way for years.


I have gone on a number of those trips over the years and I can safely say that no city takes over other cities the way Chicagoans and Bear fans takes over at those games. And I have never seen fans from other cities takeover Chicago the way Bears fans takeover other cities either

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:12 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
I think your point on the actual city of Chicago residents applies to all things, not just the Bears. For the most part, the suburbs don't even exist to city residents..

You mean to tell me that the "average Lifelong Chicagoan" doesn't know where the vaunted , now defunct Hinsdale Oasis happened to be? The nerve of him!

Swung on and Belted :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:26 pm 
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:lol: well done LTG

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:40 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Patriots, Giants, 49ers and the Cowboys are four similar big brands of NFL football. Guess where they all play? It's basically Arlington Heights.

All of that sounds good, but none of their fans are as loyal as "Chicago" Bear fans happen to be. Not even Dallas Cowboy fans


The Patriots play where they play because the minimum-capacity provision of the NFL/AFL merger kicked them out of Fenway or Harvard or wherever they were squatting by the end (the same mechanism that kicked the Bears out of Wrigley and off to Soldier Field) and with ownership being perpetually broke and incompetent, someone pity-gifted them some shit land halfway to Providence off US-1 for the sake of keeping the team, where they built the cheapest stadium possible that no one liked to go to because it was just one exit off a four-lane highway in the middle of nowhere and you'd sit there forever trying to get in and out. By the '90s they were poking around Boston proper again and even kicked the tires on Hartford before they got another sweetheart deal to basically stay put, which they did, and then built a strip mall around it. They're not there because the exurbs are superior to the city for their legions of SUV-piloting Massholes, it's just the legacy of when they were run by an even dumber family than the McCaskeys.

The 49ers' move to Santa Clara was met with a lot of resistance from people who didn't want the team to go to the suburbs, especially the South Bay 40 miles south, which is a pain to get to for most people in the Bay Area what with its strange geography and all. It's the opposite of Candlestick where it's unusually hot all the time. I think the prevailing opinion is that Candlestick was a dump but at least it wasn't in Santa Clara. It has never seemed like an arrangement that the fanbase was particularly happy with.

The Meadowlands is a weird case where it's only five miles west of Manhattan as the crow flies but until NJ Transit built a rail spur for the new stadium, you could only get there by car, which is obviously a problem for New York City, and even with the train I think you have to go out to Hoboken or Secaucus first and back out again. The Giants tried to move to Manhattan around the turn of the millennium but Madison Square Garden's lobbying power was too strong and by September '01 there were bigger fish to fry, so they resigned themselves to staying in their parking lot.

I think Dallas is a suburban success story, but the biggest one is the Raiders, whose Los Angeles fans faithfully drive and fly to the easternmost suburb of L.A. to watch their team.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:45 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
How many games a year does Dr Style attend?


I travel out of town with the team every year and have for the last 12-13 years. Have you?

And I doubt very seriously if you are a season ticket holder either

I don't live in the Chicago area.

I'm also not talking about how fans are only loyal to the Bears if they have the right zip code.

But you still felt compelled to "question" my loyalty didn't ya? Or wonder why I would have an opinion even though it's fine for you to have one didn't you? Just Asking Questions
Well the team is named the "Chicago Bears" you know. And if that didn't matter, then name then the Arlington Heights Bears the second that they move and where that gets ya aye?

You can be loyal and not attend games.

But it seems strange to no longer support the Bears if they move to a wrong zip code if you aren't going to games in their current zip code.


MY POINT NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME THOUGH.

You would stop supporting the Bears if they had a zip code you deemed unacceptable.

Do you actually speak for all Chicagoans?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:46 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Patriots, Giants, 49ers and the Cowboys are four similar big brands of NFL football. Guess where they all play? It's basically Arlington Heights.

All of that sounds good, but none of their fans are as loyal as "Chicago" Bear fans happen to be. Not even Dallas Cowboy fans


The Patriots play where they play because the minimum-capacity provision of the NFL/AFL merger kicked them out of Fenway or Harvard or wherever they were squatting by the end (the same mechanism that kicked the Bears out of Wrigley and off to Soldier Field) and with ownership being perpetually broke and incompetent, someone pity-gifted them some shit land halfway to Providence off US-1 for the sake of keeping the team, where they built the cheapest stadium possible that no one liked to go to because it was just one exit off a four-lane highway in the middle of nowhere and you'd sit there forever trying to get in and out. By the '90s they were poking around Boston proper again and even kicked the tires on Hartford before they got another sweetheart deal to basically stay put, which they did, and then built a strip mall around it. They're not there because the exurbs are superior to the city for their legions of SUV-piloting Massholes, it's just the legacy of when they were run by an even dumber family than the McCaskeys.

The 49ers' move to Santa Clara was met with a lot of resistance from people who didn't want the team to go to the suburbs, especially the South Bay 40 miles south, which is a pain to get to for most people in the Bay Area what with its strange geography and all. It's the opposite of Candlestick where it's unusually hot all the time. I think the prevailing opinion is that Candlestick was a dump but at least it wasn't in Santa Clara. It has never seemed like an arrangement that the fanbase was particularly happy with.

The Meadowlands is a weird case where it's only five miles west of Manhattan as the crow flies but until NJ Transit built a rail spur for the new stadium, you could only get there by car, which is obviously a problem for New York City, and even with the train I think you have to go out to Hoboken or Secaucus first and back out again. The Giants tried to move to Manhattan around the turn of the millennium but Madison Square Garden's lobbying power was too strong and by September '01 there were bigger fish to fry, so they resigned themselves to staying in their parking lot.

I think Dallas is a suburban success story, but the biggest one is the Raiders, whose Los Angeles fans faithfully drive and fly to the easternmost suburb of L.A. to watch their team.

All of them are wildly successful in their suburban areas.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:48 pm 
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The Hinsdale Oasis is still open, its just operating differently.

The vaunted NBA Conference finals are going on yet here we are talking even more off season out of town football...and not even the players. Now we're talking about stadiums :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:49 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
The Bears have the most loyal fanbase in the NFL. If they leave for Arlington Heights there will be a number of loyal fans that will view it as an act of betrayal.


the last 6 sox fans can stay where they are. it will only be a net positive for the bears.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:12 pm 
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If the Bears win (givien the last 30 years that is not likely), no one will care where the stadium is.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:20 pm 
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The concept that people will stop being Bears fans if they move out of the 606 is laughable. Let's start easy... what are the demographics of the current stadium attendees? 90%+ 606 residents? Nobody from the suburbs goes to games? Does anyone know? Or are we just assuming things based on our own personal biases?
History shows that when the team is good, people will go. That's likely the most important factor in attendance. Field a good team and it doesn't matter if they're in Champaign. People will come Ray.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:31 pm 
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I don't think people will stop being Bears fans. I just think Arlington Heights is a terrible place to put a stadium with a copy of Deer Park built around it.

Sentimentally, I would like to see all our sports teams in the city. A football stadium would be a wonderful use of the big empty plot of land south of Roosevelt, and relatively easy to get to for people from all directions.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:37 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
History shows that when the team is good, people will go. That's likely the most important factor in attendance. Field a good team and it doesn't matter if they're in Champaign. People will come Ray.

History shows that demand is actually pretty inelastic, inasmuch as the Bears always sell out despite only making the playoffs 7 times in 32 seasons. (For comparison, the 2009-2016 Packers made the playoffs 8 times in 8 seasons.) Bears fans eat a lot of shit, as most NFL fans do. But with bad football in a depressing stadium with an inconvenient location (and make no mistake, it would be), do the Bears start putting up late-era St. Louis Rams attendance, or '80s Patriots going-bankrupt-promoting-the-Jackson-5 attendance? We may be past that era of the NFL for good, but I don't know, maybe.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:38 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
If the Bears win (givien the last 30 years that is not likely), no one will care where the stadium is.


No one also will care when they lose either if they move to Arlington Heights. If they move to Arlington Heights the phrase "Die Hard Bears Fans" moves out with it.

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Last edited by The Doctor Of Style on Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:43 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Darkside wrote:
History shows that when the team is good, people will go. That's likely the most important factor in attendance. Field a good team and it doesn't matter if they're in Champaign. People will come Ray.

History shows that demand is actually pretty inelastic, inasmuch as the Bears always sell out despite only making the playoffs 7 times in 32 seasons. (For comparison, the 2009-2016 Packers made the playoffs 8 times in 8 seasons.) Bears fans eat a lot of shit, as most NFL fans do. But with bad football in a depressing stadium with an inconvenient location (and make no mistake, it would be), do the Bears start putting up late-era St. Louis Rams attendance, or '80s Patriots going-bankrupt-promoting-the-Jackson-5 attendance? We may be past that era of the NFL for good, but I don't know, maybe.


This guy gets it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:46 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
But with bad football in a depressing stadium with an inconvenient location (and make no mistake, it would be), do the Bears start putting up late-era St. Louis Rams attendance, or '80s Patriots going-bankrupt-promoting-the-Jackson-5 attendance? We may be past that era of the NFL for good, but I don't know, maybe.

Soon you'll be proclaiming the end of civilization if the Bears move to AH.

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