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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 2:25 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
4 second stat cannot tell you whether a pocket has collapsed shortly after the football has been snapped. Only film can. That's why I provided. Eyetest told me that the Bears O-Line sucked and that statistic only verified it.
No, the 4 second stat literally tells you if the pocket has collapsed shortly after the football has been snapped. That's the 4 seconds part. It's 4 seconds after the snap.

As I also said, if the OL was truly as bad as you say then Fields was stupid to hold the ball as long as he did instead of getting rid of it earlier or throwing it away.


Fields could have been "scrambling to make a play" in those 4 seconds because the pocket collapsed so often. I just showed you the tape of the pocket collapsing for an entire game and you ignored it so that you can pump the "holds the ball too long" narrative. Ok.

In that particular game the pocket basically collapsed all game immediately as the ball was snapped. This was the case in MANY other games as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 2:32 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Fields could have been "scrambling to make a play" in those 4 seconds because the pocket collapsed so often. I just showed you the tape of the pocket collapsing for an entire game and you ignored it so that you can pump the "holds the ball too long" narrative. Ok.
The stat is 4 seconds in the pocket so no, he couldn't have been scrambling to make a play since he was still in the pocket. To make things worse, even if what you said is true and he was scrambling to "make a play" he wasn't very good at that either and given that we are talking about plays he got sacked on he should have thrown the ball away. So no matter what, compared to every other NFL QB that qualified, he was holding onto it too long, not throwing it away enough, and getting sacked more than they did and a lot of them aren't nearly as athletic as he was. So, my argument is an indictment of Fields. Your argument, which is flawed, is also an indictment of Fields.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 2:38 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Fields could have been "scrambling to make a play" in those 4 seconds because the pocket collapsed so often. I just showed you the tape of the pocket collapsing for an entire game and you ignored it so that you can pump the "holds the ball too long" narrative. Ok.
The stat is 4 seconds in the pocket so no, he couldn't have been scrambling to make a play since he was still in the pocket. To make things worse, even if what you said is true and he was scrambling to "make a play" he wasn't very good at that either and given that we are talking about plays he got sacked on he should have thrown the ball away. So no matter what, compared to every other NFL QB that qualified, he was holding onto it too long, not throwing it away enough, and getting sacked more than they did and a lot of them aren't nearly as athletic as he was. So, my argument is an indictment of Fields. Your argument, which is flawed, is also an indictment of Fields.

I just showed you actual film of his pocket collapsing for an entire game from the snap of the ball and you're still proclaiming that he had "plenty of time to throw" and just held the ball too long.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 2:58 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
I just showed you actual film of his pocket collapsing for an entire game from the snap of the ball and you're still proclaiming that he had "plenty of time to throw" and just held the ball too long.
There are like 6 plays total, and the second one he blames Fields for not throwing fast enough. Others don't seem to be about the OL at all.

This also was an absolute blowout where the entire team was terrible.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that your own argument is also an indictment of Fields in that he held onto the ball even though his OL was terrible.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:03 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
I just showed you actual film of his pocket collapsing for an entire game from the snap of the ball and you're still proclaiming that he had "plenty of time to throw" and just held the ball too long.
There are like 6 plays total, and the second one he blames Fields for not throwing fast enough. Others don't seem to be about the OL at all.

This also was an absolute blowout where the entire team was terrible.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that your own argument is also an indictment of Fields in that he held onto the ball even though his OL was terrible.


Brick it's kind of tough to take you serious when you claim relevant information regarding receivers and offensive coordinator is thought of as "excuses"

Brick wrote:
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Oh man. A QB with better lineman, better receivers, and a better running game just might perform better than the other guy did as a rookie. What next? You knew that Jordan was going to perform better than Sedale Threat did his rookie year?

Stop making so many excuses.


Seems like you're arguing just to argue at this point

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:07 pm 
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I just don’t think this conversation is making much head way.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:07 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Seems like you're arguing just to argue at this point

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:09 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
I just don’t think this conversation is making much head way.


Sounds like ltg is holding onto the argument too long.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 9:05 pm 
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It's pretty obvious what was going on last couple years. First, Fields can't hit a hot read or his first read. He will never ever make timing passes. He has to see his receivers open. Unfortunately that's not really how the NFL works. He never learned to throw to spots and let his receivers get to them breaking after he throws.
Second, his o line wasn't great. Sure they could break down, cause fields to prematurely bail due to poor fast decision making. But his line was given a reputation it didn't deserve. No nfl line is expected to protect for 4 seconds. Fields can make a mediocre o line look like the worst ever.
If you want to take sacks into account, I can show dozens of sacks He took where he missed an open receiver, ran oft, and and got sacked after scrambling around like a crazy person and getting sacked. And also a lot of footage of him missing an open receiver, ran oft, and got a 15 yard gain.
Thing is speed won't always be there. It could be gone in a heartbeat with a knee injury and based on the hits he takes due to having any fucking clue how to take a hit that knee injury is imminent. Then what?
Fact is Fields can't make decisions. That's why he's a poor nfl quarterback. It's decision making and adaptability.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 7:24 am 
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Darkside wrote:
It's pretty obvious what was going on last couple years. First, Fields can't hit a hot read or his first read. He will never ever make timing passes. He has to see his receivers open. Unfortunately that's not really how the NFL works. He never learned to throw to spots and let his receivers get to them breaking after he throws.
Second, his o line wasn't great. Sure they could break down, cause fields to prematurely bail due to poor fast decision making. But his line was given a reputation it didn't deserve. No nfl line is expected to protect for 4 seconds. Fields can make a mediocre o line look like the worst ever.
If you want to take sacks into account, I can show dozens of sacks He took where he missed an open receiver, ran oft, and and got sacked after scrambling around like a crazy person and getting sacked. And also a lot of footage of him missing an open receiver, ran oft, and got a 15 yard gain.
Thing is speed won't always be there. It could be gone in a heartbeat with a knee injury and based on the hits he takes due to having any fucking clue how to take a hit that knee injury is imminent. Then what?
Fact is Fields can't make decisions. That's why he's a poor nfl quarterback. It's decision making and adaptability.


backups don't take hits

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 11:26 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
4 second stat cannot tell you whether a pocket has collapsed shortly after the football has been snapped. Only film can. That's why I provided. Eyetest told me that the Bears O-Line sucked and that statistic only verified it.
No, the 4 second stat literally tells you if the pocket has collapsed shortly after the football has been snapped. That's the 4 seconds part. It's 4 seconds after the snap.

As I also said, if the OL was truly as bad as you say then Fields was stupid to hold the ball as long as he did instead of getting rid of it earlier or throwing it away.


Fields could have been "scrambling to make a play" in those 4 seconds because the pocket collapsed so often. I just showed you the tape of the pocket collapsing for an entire game and you ignored it so that you can pump the "holds the ball too long" narrative. Ok.

In that particular game the pocket basically collapsed all game immediately as the ball was snapped. This was the case in MANY other games as well.


When you're right, you're right. In this world of stats deciding things, there needs to be room left for the proverbial EYE TEST. To say that the Bear's offensive line last season was even close to being good is just not close to being true. :oops: :oops: :oops:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:02 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
4 second stat cannot tell you whether a pocket has collapsed shortly after the football has been snapped. Only film can. That's why I provided. Eyetest told me that the Bears O-Line sucked and that statistic only verified it.
No, the 4 second stat literally tells you if the pocket has collapsed shortly after the football has been snapped. That's the 4 seconds part. It's 4 seconds after the snap.

As I also said, if the OL was truly as bad as you say then Fields was stupid to hold the ball as long as he did instead of getting rid of it earlier or throwing it away.


Fields could have been "scrambling to make a play" in those 4 seconds because the pocket collapsed so often. I just showed you the tape of the pocket collapsing for an entire game and you ignored it so that you can pump the "holds the ball too long" narrative. Ok.

In that particular game the pocket basically collapsed all game immediately as the ball was snapped. This was the case in MANY other games as well.


When you're right, you're right. In this world of stats deciding things, there needs to be room left for the proverbial EYE TEST. To say that the Bear's offensive line last season was even close to being good is just not close to being true. :oops: :oops: :oops:

That's the funny thing though. Let's say you and Dr. Style are 100% correct. Say the OL was bad. Say it was the worst in the league. Say it was the worst of all time. That's an even stronger indictment of Fields holding onto the ball more than any other QB in the league before he threw it. If your OL is terrible you need to get it out quick because, surprisingly, you aren't going to have as much time to throw. The fact that he didn't do that means that he also failed at his job.

So, statistically, he held on the ball way too long especially given how it didn't result in quality yardage but also resulted in a high amount of sacks. So, both sides are getting to the same conclusion that Fields was a problem.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:07 pm 
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Supposedly less talented backups were sacked significantly less than Fields when they started. They must be smart.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:13 pm 
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Why are you guys stepping on Hawk-LTG unity?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:14 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Why are you guys stepping on Hawk-LTG unity?

Like the Trump-Vance alliance, we can't stand to see two guys who hate each other working together.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 6:10 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:19 am 
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This Hard Knocks off-season show has been kind of interesting, the last episode in particular with all the pre-draft stuff.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 7:24 am 
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I'm glad that didn't happen. The first round played out beautifully for the Bear.

There are probably lots of trades "in place" before the draft. I think the bear would have been happy with Odunze even at a spot like 6 and that they had him no lower than the #2WR in a very talented WR draft

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 8:37 am 
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I can't get over Daboll with his feet on the coffee table in all of those episodes. Arrogance.


Last edited by Caller Bob on Thu Jul 25, 2024 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 8:47 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
I can't get over Daboll with his feat on the coffee table in all of those episodes. Arrogance.


The GM sounds like a bad GM and nervous Nancy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 8:49 am 
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He doesn't have the balls to tell that fat slob to get his feet down. This is a professional meeting, why does he think that's ok? I know JORR is with me on this one.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 8:56 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
He doesn't have the balls to tell that fat slob to get his feet down. This is a professional meeting, why does he think that's ok? I know JORR is with me on this one.


I thought he was doing it to rattle the draft picks. He's just disrespectful.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 9:58 am 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I can't get over Daboll with his feat on the coffee table in all of those episodes. Arrogance.


The GM sounds like a bad GM and nervous Nancy.


and all his kids have those white trash with a little money and want to be upper class type names: Sydney, Harper and Carson. OOOH, we made it!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 10:06 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
I can't get over Daboll with his feat on the coffee table in all of those episodes. Arrogance.

I actually agree with this. I thought it was a bad look as well, it's an office with prospective players coming in, and that's the impression you want to give off?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 10:11 am 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I can't get over Daboll with his feat on the coffee table in all of those episodes. Arrogance.


The GM sounds like a bad GM and nervous Nancy.

I am not getting a "nervous Nancy" vibe off of him, but I didn't care for the way he basically told Saquon to go do his job for him and find out how much he can get and then come back and let him know. I can support not signing Saquon in theory, but make the decision and move on, its not up to Saquon and his agent to do the work (tampering or no tampering) and then come back, give him a number, and maybe we can work something out. That seemed amateurish to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 10:12 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
I can't get over Daboll with his feat on the coffee table in all of those episodes. Arrogance.


More arrogance by Matt Nagy!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 10:29 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I can't get over Daboll with his feat on the coffee table in all of those episodes. Arrogance.


The GM sounds like a bad GM and nervous Nancy.

I am not getting a "nervous Nancy" vibe off of him, but I didn't care for the way he basically told Saquon to go do his job for him and find out how much he can get and then come back and let him know. I can support not signing Saquon in theory, but make the decision and move on, its not up to Saquon and his agent to do the work (tampering or no tampering) and then come back, give him a number, and maybe we can work something out. That seemed amateurish to me.


He was monitoring his stress levels and they were through the roof.

The Barkley thing was weird. It was clear to me he didn't want Barkley but he was afraid to say it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 10:42 am 
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Nas wrote:
man of few opinions wrote:
Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I can't get over Daboll with his feat on the coffee table in all of those episodes. Arrogance.


The GM sounds like a bad GM and nervous Nancy.

I am not getting a "nervous Nancy" vibe off of him, but I didn't care for the way he basically told Saquon to go do his job for him and find out how much he can get and then come back and let him know. I can support not signing Saquon in theory, but make the decision and move on, its not up to Saquon and his agent to do the work (tampering or no tampering) and then come back, give him a number, and maybe we can work something out. That seemed amateurish to me.


He was monitoring his stress levels and they were through the roof.

The Barkley thing was weird. It was clear to me he didn't want Barkley but he was afraid to say it.

I think you are right, I think he just didn't want to be the one to say it to such a popular player, and it was his way of asking Saquon to do it for him.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2024 10:56 am 
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Truth be told, Saquon would have done well to accept the offer the Giants made before '23. It reportedly had a higher APR than the Eagles gave him and incentives to get him even higher than that. From what I have read, the Giants guaranteed money was below what he wanted (or deserved), but he eventually made it through 2023 injury-free which is what the Giants were worried about with him. I don't blame Saquon for wanting to get paid at all, careers are short and players needs to look out for themselves. I wish he had signed in 2023 and wish him well with the Eagles. He is a good guy and a dynamic player, even if he has lost a step since his injury.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 9:56 pm 
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The Giants were going to draft Odunze at #6 if the Chargers picked Nabers.

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