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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:47 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
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92 sacks for a interior lineman from that era is pretty impressive, you can justify him getting in even if there is a bit of mercy factor here given his condition.


Sure, but when you're playing between two of the greatest of all-time somebody is gonna get double-teamed, so who is trying to stop you?

Spaulding has it right. It doesn't hurt anyone to put him in. The Football HoF is weird anyway. How could Tommy Nobis not be in?


Refrigerator was one of the greatest?

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 1:24 pm 
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Didn't deserve it? Didn't the guy play every game for like 8 of 9 years?



So he's sort of like Shawon Dunston, right?

No.


I would say both guys fit at about the same rank in the pantheon of their respective sports. They showed up everyday and played pretty well.

I mean you could say that if you never watched sports and didn't know any stats sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:13 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
92 sacks for a interior lineman from that era is pretty impressive, you can justify him getting in even if there is a bit of mercy factor here given his condition.


Sure, but when you're playing between two of the greatest of all-time somebody is gonna get double-teamed, so who is trying to stop you?

Spaulding has it right. It doesn't hurt anyone to put him in. The Football HoF is weird anyway. How could Tommy Nobis not be in?



Maybe Dent and Hampton were all time greats in part because they lined up next to Mongo? I’m sure Mongo drew his share of double teams as well.

I’d argue that Mongo’s off field rollicking circus of a life probably worked against him in that he got more attention for his off field and post playing career endeavors and was viewed less through the lens of the dominant player he was.

Mongo was first or second team All-Pro 5x. The same number as Urlacher. Also the 191 games played consecutively, in football like most other endeavors, availability is the best ability.


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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:39 pm 
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One Post wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
92 sacks for a interior lineman from that era is pretty impressive, you can justify him getting in even if there is a bit of mercy factor here given his condition.


Sure, but when you're playing between two of the greatest of all-time somebody is gonna get double-teamed, so who is trying to stop you?

Spaulding has it right. It doesn't hurt anyone to put him in. The Football HoF is weird anyway. How could Tommy Nobis not be in?



Maybe Dent and Hampton were all time greats in part because they lined up next to Mongo?


You're entitled to that opinion. It's not one I share.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:51 pm 
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The Man wrote:
Good for him I guess but not a Hall of Famer in my eyes. My guess is that if he were already gone he wouldnt be getting in. I was a pretty young man at the time he was playing but my recollection was that he had better numbers because everything went to him and away from Hampton and Dent.


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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 2:08 pm 
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Quite the scene to see Mongo surrounded by so many teammates as they show him his bust.

Such a bittersweet day.

Glad that he made it to see this day.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 2:31 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Quite the scene to see Mongo surrounded by so many teammates as they show him his bust.

Such a bittersweet day.

Glad that he made it to see this day.

Yeah that's pretty cool. Would have been nice to see it before today but I guess we'll take what we can get.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:28 pm 
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Friend of mine lost her husband to ALS not long ago and has worked on the cause. She and her kids visited Mongo and it was touching.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 8:42 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Quite the scene to see Mongo surrounded by so many teammates as they show him his bust.

Such a bittersweet day.

Glad that he made it to see this day.


Did Dan Hampton take part in the ceremony? He wasn't mentioned in the articles I read, nor did I see him in any of the photographs. Strange.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:00 am 
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Steve McMichael wasn't a Hall Of Famer. His sack totals were heavily skewed by 3 things.
1. Surrounding talent. He rarely if ever faced double teams. No team ever schemed to stop Steve McMichael. They did however for Dent and Hampton though

2. Scheme. 46 defense was all about blitzing. Thus many of those sacks were the result of his getting to the QB unblocked.

3. Longevity and durability. Played a long time and rarely got hurt. When that happens you're likely to accumulate stats. Which McMichael obviously did.


During the era McMichael played he wasn't even top 5 at his position. I would argue not top 10 either. He was always regarded as a solid player in his day. Though you'd be hard pressed to find too many (including meatball Bear fans) who'd ever argue that he was a HOF player

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:31 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Steve McMichael wasn't a Hall Of Famer. His sack totals were heavily skewed by 3 things.
1. Surrounding talent. He rarely if ever faced double teams. No team ever schemed to stop Steve McMichael. They did however for Dent and Hampton though

2. Scheme. 46 defense was all about blitzing. Thus many of those sacks were the result of his getting to the QB unblocked.

3. Longevity and durability. Played a long time and rarely got hurt. When that happens you're likely to accumulate stats. Which McMichael obviously did.


During the era McMichael played he wasn't even top 5 at his position. I would argue not top 10 either. He was always regarded as a solid player in his day. Though you'd be hard pressed to find too many (including meatball Bear fans) who'd ever argue that he was a HOF player

What about his deep throws?

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:41 am 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Steve McMichael wasn't a Hall Of Famer. His sack totals were heavily skewed by 3 things.
1. Surrounding talent. He rarely if ever faced double teams. No team ever schemed to stop Steve McMichael. They did however for Dent and Hampton though

2. Scheme. 46 defense was all about blitzing. Thus many of those sacks were the result of his getting to the QB unblocked.

3. Longevity and durability. Played a long time and rarely got hurt. When that happens you're likely to accumulate stats. Which McMichael obviously did.


During the era McMichael played he wasn't even top 5 at his position. I would argue not top 10 either. He was always regarded as a solid player in his day. Though you'd be hard pressed to find too many (including meatball Bear fans) who'd ever argue that he was a HOF player

What about his deep throws?


They hardly matter in this instance. Yep deep passing is hardly a necessity when it comes to THROWING :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:06 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Steve McMichael wasn't a Hall Of Famer. His sack totals were heavily skewed by 3 things.
1. Surrounding talent. He rarely if ever faced double teams. No team ever schemed to stop Steve McMichael. They did however for Dent and Hampton though

2. Scheme. 46 defense was all about blitzing. Thus many of those sacks were the result of his getting to the QB unblocked.

3. Longevity and durability. Played a long time and rarely got hurt. When that happens you're likely to accumulate stats. Which McMichael obviously did.


During the era McMichael played he wasn't even top 5 at his position. I would argue not top 10 either. He was always regarded as a solid player in his day. Though you'd be hard pressed to find too many (including meatball Bear fans) who'd ever argue that he was a HOF player


not sure if i agree with all your points - but yes, i never felt he was a HOFer when i watched him play. excellent run-stopper. do i begrudge him for making canton? no.


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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:11 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Quite the scene to see Mongo surrounded by so many teammates as they show him his bust.

Such a bittersweet day.

Glad that he made it to see this day.


Did Dan Hampton take part in the ceremony? He wasn't mentioned in the articles I read, nor did I see him in any of the photographs. Strange.

He was being inducted to the DUI Hall of Fame on the same night.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:15 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Steve McMichael wasn't a Hall Of Famer. His sack totals were heavily skewed by 3 things.
1. Surrounding talent. He rarely if ever faced double teams. No team ever schemed to stop Steve McMichael. They did however for Dent and Hampton though

2. Scheme. 46 defense was all about blitzing. Thus many of those sacks were the result of his getting to the QB unblocked.

3. Longevity and durability. Played a long time and rarely got hurt. When that happens you're likely to accumulate stats. Which McMichael obviously did.


During the era McMichael played he wasn't even top 5 at his position. I would argue not top 10 either. He was always regarded as a solid player in his day. Though you'd be hard pressed to find too many (including meatball Bear fans) who'd ever argue that he was a HOF player

Canton is a big place. That's pretty much the explanation. It's never been known as 'the best of the best'.


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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:16 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Steve McMichael wasn't a Hall Of Famer. His sack totals were heavily skewed by 3 things.
1. Surrounding talent. He rarely if ever faced double teams. No team ever schemed to stop Steve McMichael. They did however for Dent and Hampton though

2. Scheme. 46 defense was all about blitzing. Thus many of those sacks were the result of his getting to the QB unblocked.

3. Longevity and durability. Played a long time and rarely got hurt. When that happens you're likely to accumulate stats. Which McMichael obviously did.


During the era McMichael played he wasn't even top 5 at his position. I would argue not top 10 either. He was always regarded as a solid player in his day. Though you'd be hard pressed to find too many (including meatball Bear fans) who'd ever argue that he was a HOF player


Another awful football thought. It's quite the abyss.


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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:08 am 
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If Joe Klecko is in, Mongo should be too.


I actually think McMichael was a bit underrated due to some of the other talent around him. For example, I didn’t realize his stats were as stout as they are because we always here about Dent, Singletary, Marshall, Fencik, The Fridge and Hampton (who I also feel is slighted at times).


McMichael was a legit good/great player tho.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:59 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Steve McMichael wasn't a Hall Of Famer. His sack totals were heavily skewed by 3 things.
1. Surrounding talent. He rarely if ever faced double teams. No team ever schemed to stop Steve McMichael. They did however for Dent and Hampton though

2. Scheme. 46 defense was all about blitzing. Thus many of those sacks were the result of his getting to the QB unblocked.

3. Longevity and durability. Played a long time and rarely got hurt. When that happens you're likely to accumulate stats. Which McMichael obviously did.


During the era McMichael played he wasn't even top 5 at his position. I would argue not top 10 either. He was always regarded as a solid player in his day. Though you'd be hard pressed to find too many (including meatball Bear fans) who'd ever argue that he was a HOF player


Another awful football thought. It's quite the abyss.


You're flailing at this point "Writer Bob". Might be time to tapout.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:09 pm 
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Nardi wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Steve McMichael wasn't a Hall Of Famer. His sack totals were heavily skewed by 3 things.
1. Surrounding talent. He rarely if ever faced double teams. No team ever schemed to stop Steve McMichael. They did however for Dent and Hampton though

2. Scheme. 46 defense was all about blitzing. Thus many of those sacks were the result of his getting to the QB unblocked.

3. Longevity and durability. Played a long time and rarely got hurt. When that happens you're likely to accumulate stats. Which McMichael obviously did.


During the era McMichael played he wasn't even top 5 at his position. I would argue not top 10 either. He was always regarded as a solid player in his day. Though you'd be hard pressed to find too many (including meatball Bear fans) who'd ever argue that he was a HOF player

Canton is a big place. That's pretty much the explanation. It's never been known as 'the best of the best'.


As a ute I was a diehard Bears fan and Football fan. Also an avid Sportstalk radio guy. I never heard one person utter the words Future Hall Of Famer Steve McMichael. And when the Bears defense was dominant, he was about the 6th or 7th most impactful.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:19 pm 
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McMichael absolutely earned the ticket to the HoF. There is no honest debate about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:23 pm 
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the defense lost, as halas used to put it, 'the old zip-a-roo', when marshall left - as singletary and wilson started their downward trajectories. by that time, the LBs were the spring of the bears spring-loaded defense.

unfortunately, today's rules are too late for saving mcmahon. should have won at least another, maybe 2 other super bowls. fuller, flutie and ditka not able to deal with gibb's 5-man D-line...all you need to know.


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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:30 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
McMichael absolutely earned the ticket to the HoF. There is no honest debate about it.


Edit

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 1:03 pm 
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I’d also point out that when Hampton went down in 89’ there was no drop off in McMichaels production -in 91’ and 92’ after Hamp was gone there was also no drop off in Mongo’s production either. People arguing against McMichael because there was other talent around him should consider the fact he was a big part of the talent on those defenses, not the other way around. There’s a reason that 85’ defense is considered the best ever.. it was loaded with talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 4:37 pm 
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I'm kind of allergic to this argument because it reminds me of the arguments against the best players on the Blackhawks: people say Toews was only good because of Kane, Kane was only good because of Keith, Keith was only good because of Hossa, you get the picture. That being said, why did it take this long to realize that Steve McMichael was an all-time great alongside the others from the '85 Bears? If he were not dying an excruciating death, would he be a Hall of Famer? Probably not. But what's the downside of enshrining a guy from the league's founding franchise who will have died from playing the game, and what's the upside of snubbing him?

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 6:11 pm 
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I think it was because so many players on that team had made it to the HoF and they won one Super Bowl. Someone needed to be left off.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 10:32 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Quite the scene to see Mongo surrounded by so many teammates as they show him his bust.

Such a bittersweet day.

Glad that he made it to see this day.


Did Dan Hampton take part in the ceremony? He wasn't mentioned in the articles I read, nor did I see him in any of the photographs. Strange.

This is really strange. They were seemingly really close for many years. I can't find anything on him. Hopefully he is not having his own issues at moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 1:35 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Quite the scene to see Mongo surrounded by so many teammates as they show him his bust.

Such a bittersweet day.

Glad that he made it to see this day.


Did Dan Hampton take part in the ceremony? He wasn't mentioned in the articles I read, nor did I see him in any of the photographs. Strange.

This is really strange. They were seemingly really close for many years. I can't find anything on him. Hopefully he is not having his own issues at moment.


Definitely. It seemed like Hampton was visiting Mongo pretty regularly at his house. Hope he's OK.

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 1:38 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Quite the scene to see Mongo surrounded by so many teammates as they show him his bust.

Such a bittersweet day.

Glad that he made it to see this day.


Did Dan Hampton take part in the ceremony? He wasn't mentioned in the articles I read, nor did I see him in any of the photographs. Strange.

This is really strange. They were seemingly really close for many years. I can't find anything on him. Hopefully he is not having his own issues at moment.


Definitely. It seemed like Hampton was visiting Mongo pretty regularly at his house. Hope he's OK.


I'm pretty sure he's ok (just keep him away from Jim Beam and a vehicle)



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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 2:22 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Quite the scene to see Mongo surrounded by so many teammates as they show him his bust.

Such a bittersweet day.

Glad that he made it to see this day.


Did Dan Hampton take part in the ceremony? He wasn't mentioned in the articles I read, nor did I see him in any of the photographs. Strange.

This is really strange. They were seemingly really close for many years. I can't find anything on him. Hopefully he is not having his own issues at moment.


Definitely. It seemed like Hampton was visiting Mongo pretty regularly at his house. Hope he's OK.


Hampton was in Canton for the ceremony

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 Post subject: Re: Mongo to the HOF
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 2:35 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Quite the scene to see Mongo surrounded by so many teammates as they show him his bust.

Such a bittersweet day.

Glad that he made it to see this day.


Did Dan Hampton take part in the ceremony? He wasn't mentioned in the articles I read, nor did I see him in any of the photographs. Strange.

This is really strange. They were seemingly really close for many years. I can't find anything on him. Hopefully he is not having his own issues at moment.


Definitely. It seemed like Hampton was visiting Mongo pretty regularly at his house. Hope he's OK.


I'm pretty sure he's ok (just keep him away from Jim Beam and a vehicle)



packed house there


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