Those first Brady super bowls were Belichick defense super bowls.

Reid is a lovable fat guy long since removed from KC without Mahomes.

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People forget about the timely throws and clutchness of young Brady because he wasn't allowed to light the scoreboard up. That team improved when Bledsoe was nearly murdered.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Billy B. provided the perfect environment for a young Brady to develop and succeed under. It’s funny how the narrative for like 2 decades was that Brady was nothing more than a system QB that only won because of Bill’s genius coaching.. but then Bill was a talentless hack who was carried by Brady when Tom left and won with the Bucs


People just hated the Pats, plain and simple. Both Tom and Bill could not have had the success they wound up having without one another. Yin and Yang imo

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

I never subscribed to that narrative. I've been a Brady ball licker for nearly 3 decades. That won't change. Belichick is overrated.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I’m curious to know why you think this. They both look about equal to me ‘ceiling’ wise atm. Maybe there’s an argument still that Jaydens arm talent is quite the same as Calebs.. but so far NFL wise I don’t feel that way.


Right now I’d say Caleb is being asked to do more processing and read wise, and also showing that he’s better in the red zone.. but Jayden has shown he’s a bit more accurate and throws a better deep ball.


I think if they both stay healthy they’re going to be good QB’s for a long time.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

How many people do you think are watching full games for each and deciding?

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Bill was a proven commodity on the defensive side of the ball long before Brady showed up. His Patriot teams (especially the early teams) won with top rated defenses every year. In fact, I don’t think there’s a single championship season Tom and Bill had together where it was the offense solely carrying the team.. while the early Brady years featured some top tier defenses.


Let’s also not forget Bill managed to coach them to a 10-6 season with Matt fucking Cassel after Brady went down.. Bill isn’t any more overrated than Brady. The early years of Patriot success shows that more than the later seasons but both are about equally responsible for the overall success those teams had.


Keep in mind Bill was also essentially the GM of those teams too.. he controlled much more than Brady over those 20 years or so.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

I don’t know, but I’m only asking FavreFan why he feels this way not everyone else.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

That isn’t a flex for Belichick. The Patriots were 18-0 with the exact same team the season before.

Belichick is a great defensive coordinator. Brady elevated the culture and gave the team a championship edge. An edge they immediately lost when he left. Belichick is a losing coach with Brady on the roster this can't be disputed. All of the talk about him as the GOAT id nonsense. He has a contemporary who is better.

The house of cards collapsed without Brady. Belichick was a shit GM. Brady could just elevate mediocre players.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You act like Brady was 100% the reason they went 16-0 that year.. they also had a top-5 defense to go along with that 16-0 season. Yes, losing the best player at he most important position in all of sports and still managing to put together a winning season is a testament to the coaching on a team in the NFL, it’s insane anyone would suggest otherwise.


They also went 10-6 with a similar roster when Brady got back too btw. That 16-0 season was a combination of many things going right for the Pats including great coaching and QB play.


I’m not even going to bother addressing your comments about ‘a winning edge’ or ‘culture’ either as if coaching had nothing at all to do with that stuff. You have some ridiculous opinions on this subject for someone who is as interested in this sport aa you seem to be. Brady himself would probably correct you on a lot of this especially considering he’s already laughed off people claiming Bill is overrated because of what Brady did after he left the team. Tom’s the 1st one to call bullshit on Bills coaching not mattering.


As for his GM skills.. he constantly drafted in the bottom half of drafts for damn near 20 years and managed to put together rosters that ranked in the top 10 in both defense and offense, many times with no-name type players. Stop yourself and think about that for a minute. Brady’s a great player -but he only controls one position on one side of the ball while Bill controlled the entire team -even off the field.


Liking Brady and wanting to give him credit for the Patriots success is fair to a point.. but there’s only one more constant in that equation and that’s the presence of Bill Belichick and his leadership and overall control of the team.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

Brady left New England and created the same winning culture in Tampa. Belichick went back to his losing ways and completely lost his team when Brady left. I don't think there's any doubt Brady was far more responsible for the Patriots overall success than Belichick was.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

No, Brady got to pick his landing spot and carefully chose a ready made team with a good coach.. all they needed was a QB.


Tell us all how Toms final year on that team went after he ran Ariens off and he was QB-ing for a team that didn’t have a good coach?

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

He chose a team that had missed the playoffs and was drafting 6th, an organization that had sucked for most of its existence.

In Tom's final year there, there were injuries all around him, and his team still made the playoffs. He had the 49ers begging him to play quarterback for them last season. The GOAT was still desired.

How did Belichick do with his handpicked Brady replacement? Why couldn’t Belichick get a job this offseason?

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

So was the one against the Rams in 2019.

Daniels to the lockeroom with a possible injury.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Ribs

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I’m surprised he went out on what looked like a pretty innocent play instead of getting comically ragdolled like he did in college.

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He is already ducking the Bears.

Sad.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Nope. Brady joined a team lead be an offensive minded coach who'd had past success in the NFL.. and an offense that finished ranked 3rd overall the season before Brady arrived.


Context matters Nas, and you won't get away with lazy posts here.





lol as if injuries didn't play a huge role in the Patriots 1st season without Tom.. but this excuse only fly's for a Tom lead team. Ok, got it.


Also, so he joined a team with a good coach that was 7-9 (with the 3rd ranked offense).. and when he was left to a season on that team without that coach he went 8-9, didn't accomplish anything and ran an offense that finished around 20th in the NFL but, you know, coaching doesn't matter at all.. amiright?





Its not easy to replace the GOAT at QB (I think we can agree there) but he did go 7-9, 10-7, and 8-9 before the wheels came completely off the final year there.

And again, its my belief that its both great QB play and great coaching that matter roughly equally. Similar to a WAR number in baseball I'd say a great coach is about a +4 (roughly) in the wins column give or take with a great QB being about equal.. and in both instances we can see thats about the right amount of slide for both Tom and Bill when one of those things was removed from the equation.

When Tom left the Pats they slid about 4 games or so on average and when Tom lost Ariens there was a 3 game slide.. and a huge disparity in that offenses ranking too sliding from 2nd ranked in Ariens final season with Tom to around 20th in Toms final season.


Coaching matters Nas, no matter where you try to hide in this debate.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

I'm a Brady guy. I make no apologies for it. I simply see no reason to evenly split the credit with Belichick. I'm not saying he deserves zero credit, but it's probably 70/30 in Brady's favor, IMO.

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You have been calling him shit at everything for this entire thread and now you’re saying “OK he was responsible for two Super Bowl wins” which would put him still in an all time great coach category.

I'm a gracious guy. Objectively, I don't think Belichick can be called a GOAT. For the sake of his legacy, he should stay retired.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I'd give Bill 5%, T*M Bra*dy 20%, and cheating 75% of the credit.

Cool story. Have you ever watched Jimmy G play football, especially in New England? Based on the complete and utter stupidity of the above post, I'm gonna say the answer is "no". Thank you for your input.

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It’s a lot, lot, lot, lot harder to say who’s gonna be good than say who’s gonna be bad. If Belichick thinks Williams is a bum, face it folks the guys probably a bum. You can cope all you want.

Caleb's much better at avoiding sacks and throwing on the run. He's able to "create" a lot more in the passing game than Daniels. Daniels has done a good job with what he's been asked to do, but hasn't faced a real pass rush yet in his career. The offense didn't really see a drop off with Mariota coming in yesterday. You can say that's because it was Carolina but defensively that's about the level of competition Daniels has faced all year so far. I also think Waldron's one of the worst OC's in the league, Caleb is overcoming that.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

We sort of already *know* Caleb isn't a bum. His worst case scenario over the next 3 years probably looks like Trevor who already has a pretty memorable playoff win and got one of those qb max extensions despite being stuck with horrific coaching and a mediocre roster at best his whole career so far.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I really hope Jayden is healthy as it would be a shame if we don't get this marquee match-up

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

He'll start. He won't finish

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I don't care. I just want a Bears victory.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!